vet techs using the term nurse

Nurses General Nursing

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what do you guys think of the growing controversy of vet techs calling themselves nurses?

I can draw blood, place IV and urinary caths, take x-rays, medicate, do all lab work.

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Phlebotomists draw blood, as well as respiratory therapists. Drawing blood is not in the general job description of a nurse as I have known them.

I.V.s are not usually in a nurses expertise until they are certified in doing it. Why would this be so if the programs were so science intensive?

Nurses do not take X-rays.

Nurses do medicate while following a physicians order verbatim.

Some nurses place routine catheters, but not without additional training. Straight caths, at least in my neck of the woods, are placed by physicians only.

It just doesn't seem to be much like like nursing, but then nothing does.

BTW

I had posters tell me they were disapointed with thier programs. I had PM conversations with students that echoed my sentiments about psychology being paramount to the curicculum. I looked at 4 year schools in my state, and the course descriptions sounded a little more technical, but a current student in one of those schools described the lack of application of the sciences as being dissapointing.

It's all opinnion anyway......right? What I think is touchy-feely another student might percieve it as scientificly challenging. There is no scale with which to measure the "touchy-feelyness" of a curicculum, nor is there a determinant of scientific application. All I can say with certainty is that this person would be narrowing thier learned skills down to those that occasionaly are applicable with the proper certifications. They may think they're going to transfer somewhat seamlessy, those skills previously mentioned.

I see them as being frustrated and shocked as to what they will give up to get a hard-earned, less autonomous job description.

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Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur

Phlebotomists draw blood, as well as respiratory therapists. Drawing blood is not in the general job description of a nurse as I have known them. Research nurses routinely take blood samples.

Nurses do not take X-rays. Cruise ship nurses do. In some cases, I had to interpret them as well.

Some nurses place routine catheters, but not without additional training. Straight caths, at least in my neck of the woods, are placed by physicians only. In MY neck of the woods, RN's place straight, foley AND coude' caths. Nursing techs do caths. Patients straight cath themselves at home.

Nurses do medicate while following a physicians order verbatim.Or under a set of standing orders using sliding scales or algorithms.

I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight with you, Peeps, but you seem to have very set--and often incorrect--ideas of what nurses can and can't do for someone who is not licensed as, nor has ever worked as a nurse. And I'm getting just a little tired of the repeated implication that nursing programs in general are not sufficiently heavy in sciences and that those of us who do have nursing degrees were awarded them for demonstrating our Advanced Pillow Fluffing and Reflective Listening Skills alone.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

NURSING IS AN ART AS MUCH AS A SCIENCE, PEEPS! You will see that soon enough. ART AND SCIENCE, in unison and harmony. To me, it's the "art" part the allows us to regard the humans we touch each day in a wholistic manner, and to think "outside the box" in our practices. AT LEAST as IMPORTANT as TECHNICAL/SCIENTIFIC tasks we perform! (maybe more some may ask?)

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Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes

See this is a good reason why nurses can't get respect. Do you think DOCTORS would appreciate just anyone calling themselves a doctor despite not being licensed to practice medicine. It is WRONG and NOT just a term....IT IS A RESPONSIBLITY, a SCOPE of PRACTICE and a set of VALUES you don't assign to just anyone. If I am unpopular for this, so be it. I worked HARD to earn the title of "nurse" and am NOT willing to just give it away that easily. These people are not nurses any more than I AM A VETERINARIAN!:(

Amen hallelujah, sister!!!

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Peeps,

I surely hope for your own sake that you are still either looking into other nursing schools or a different career path altogether.

And Stargazer, again, is very accurate in her post. I am a research nurse and I draw blood on all my patients, both maternal and neonatal. I've also inserted straight caths; these are really no different technically than an indwelling. But again, these things, in my opinion, are NOT what makes one a nurse nor are they even "scientifically or medically" based, anyway.

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Naw,

I would never imply that nurses are advanced pillow fluffers. I think if one were to look long enough, eventualy they could find a position that had all the above job descriptions.

Let me show you 33 credits of a curicculum from a well known 4 year program. I think we would find much the same curicculum across the board.

There were two classes of 3 credits each that would meet my interpretation of "scientific". A pharmacology and a pathophysiology class. The rest of the curicculum is either administrative or, as in the following examples, is "touchy-feely".

Anyway, you tell me where the science is. This is not just a little piece of the program, but 63% of the upper-level credits at the university of renown here in Maryland.

From an undergraduate catalog of A well known university's BSN program

NURS 307--Maternal, Newborn, and Women's Health Nursing: A Family Perspective (4).Focuses on providing nursing care to women and newborns during pregnancy, birth, post-partum and throughout the life span. Emphasis is placed on the biological, psychological, social, cultural and spiritual aspects of the childbearing experience. Course content includes health care, health promotion and health maintenance for women as well as health and societal trends and issues that influence women and childbearing families. Clinical experiences with women and antenatal, intrapartal and postpartum families in a variety of settings, including the clinical simulation laboratories, acute care facilities and the community, provide opportunities for application and integration of the theory-based content. Prerequisites: NURS 304, NURS 309, NURS 311, NURS 312, NURS 333.

The stress on OB/family/Peds is obvious

NURS 308--Nursing Care of Infants and Children: A Family Perspective (4).Provides in-depth knowledge of nursing care to infants and children within the family as a unit of care. Emphasis is placed on understanding the family as the basic unit in children's lives. Biological, psychological, social, cultural and spiritual influences that impact family beliefs are emphasized. Content includes a focus on wellness and illness. Current pediatric health problems, anticipatory guidance, prevention and health care promotion are presented within a framework of childhood development, family dynamics and communication skills. Clinical experiences with children and their families provide opportunities for application and integration of theory-based content. Clinical experiences are offered in a variety of settings, including the clinical simulation laboratories, acute care facilities and the community. Prerequisites: NURS 304, NURS 309, NURS 311, NURS 312, NURS 333.

NURS 309--Health of Diverse Populations, Communities, Families and Individuals (3).Facilitates the development of a philosophy and definition of health that takes into account the multiple health care needs of and relationships among populations, communities, families and individuals. Using the components of the nursing process, introductory methods to assess the health status of populations, communities, families and individuals are studied. Qualitative and quantitative data are analyzed to plan a teaching-learning intervention strategy. Multiple determinants of health status and health care, cultural and ethical influences, sources of health information, major local, state, national and global health issues and related health promotion/disease prevention objectives and health relationships among populations, communities, families and individuals are explored. Provides a theoretical and practical foundation for subsequent undergraduate courses.

This almost seems useful

NURS 325--Context of Health Care Delivery I (3).Provides an overview of the nature of nursing as an evolving profession and its relationship to the structure and function of the U.S. health care delivery system. Major issues and trends in nursing and health care are discussed. Consideration is given to the impact of socioeconomic, ethical, legal and political variables on the current U.S. health care system. Organizational structures and the dynamics of nursing practice in a changing health care delivery system are explored and discussed.

I don't think we're taking VS here

NURS 333--Health Assessment (3).Provides the knowledge and skills necessary to assess individual health as a multidimensional, balanced expression of bio-psychosocial-spiritual-cultural well-being. Course content reflects a functional health and systems approach to nursing assessment of persons through all developmental stages. Comprehensive bio-psychosocial-spiritual-cultural assessment devices are introduced to assess the impact of environmental influences upon individual health. Prerequisites or concurrent for students in the traditional and second-degree options: NURS 304, NURS 311, NURS 312.

From the description, I think the application of knowledge of the organic disorder is ignored

NURS 402--Psychiatric/Mental Health Nursing (6). Provides a basic understanding of psychiatric and mental health nursing principles in a variety of clinical settings. Course content builds on the American Nurses Association's Standards for Psychiatric Mental Health Nursing Practice, using an integrated biological, psychological, sociocultural, environmental and spiritual approach to the care of persons with psychiatric disorders. Empirical, aesthetic, ethical and personal ways of knowing are explored as a basis for understanding the needs of persons with psychiatric disorders. Current research, theory and biological foundations of psychiatric disorders are introduced. Treatment modalities and legal/ethical implications of caring for

So far, no sign of science

NURS 403--Community Health Nursing (5).Focuses on the provision of nursing care to families, communities and populations within their respective environmental contexts. Epidemiological and sociological principles are stressed and major health issues of specific populations are explored. Advanced community and family assessments to identify needs of selected populations are reviewed. Awareness of context and social responsibility is emphasized for the development of a personal philosophy of nursing.

NURS 418--Special Topics: Electives in Nursing (3).Focus on current health-related topics such as ethics and values, holistic health care, issues in the health care of women, oncology nursing, critical care nursing, cross-cultural nursing and gerontological nursing

{I]You would think that with the unique physiology of older adults they would throw us a science bone for a lousy 2 credits, but no[/i]

NURS 331--Gerontological Nursing (2).Explores the unique health and nursing needs of older adults and their significant others as well as political, social, economic, ethical and moral issues that have implications for an aging society. Emphasis is on healthy aging and wellness and positive perspectives on aging.
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Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Peeps:

Actually, your program doesn't seem all that odd. Ok for starters:

NURS 307--Maternal, Newborn, and Women's Health Nursing:

This is your basic OB class. I am an OB nurse and let me tell you, this type course was hard. I got a C+. This course goes into the physiology of conception, labor, delivery, neonates and their physiology, and from a nursing standpoint, OB is very challenging scientifically. Maybe OB isn't your interest, but OB is highly scientific. There are other aspects of care here that need to be addressed that are "fluffy" though, like labor support, breastfeeding, father-infant bonding, etc.

NURS 308--Nursing Care of Infants and Children:
Yep, your Peds class. Again, these are typically taught together with OB classes. Children and Peds are a unique specialty. Infants with significant cardiac defects like enlarged left heart syndrome or transposition of the great vessels are challenging to take care of, or kids with respiratory problems.

Again, highly scientific and medical.

Your assessment course is definitely taking vitals, Peeps! I think you are reading waaayyy too much into the course descriptions; certain things are inherent - they aren't going to list off types of illnesses you'll be looking at or anything - but a more wholistic approach! These courses do not sound that drastically different from mine 5 years ago.

Peeps, I don't say this often but I think you should get out of nursing.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by Susy K

Peeps:

Peeps, I don't say this often but I think you should get out of nursing.

Suzy I have to agree. Peeps--- why not change your major to say, CHEMISTRY or BIOPHYSICS or something much more "scientific"? You sound much better-suited for a lab than the bedside to me.

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Wow, Peeps,

I may be fairly new here and am in no hurry to offend anyone, but let me say this to you. I think that you have a complete misunderstanding of exactly what Nursing is.

I was always taught, and still believe that Nursing is the ART of CARING for and indiviual as a WHOLE.

A person is not the medical diagnosis. There are so many other factors that affect an individuals health and nurses are taught to

be in tune or to ASSESS for the psycosocial aspects of a persons life that might effect their care. Nurses are trained to EDUCATE. We are the ones who are going to teach the patients and their FAMILIES how to care for themselves at home. It is the Human Dimension that we are dealing with.

If you want to see tha patient as a science project maybe you should consider going to medical school.

(p.s. was that too harsh?)

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My first nursing program:

http://www.seattleu.edu/home/learning_teaching/bulletins_of_information/undergraduate/pdf/02-03_UGBulletin_SchoolOfNursing.pdf

My second program: http://www.plu.edu/~nurs/programs/ug_basic.html#title

I think if you look real hard, you'll find some science in there. Mind you, the classes on research methods, informatics and statistics were all added AFTER I graduated or left each of these programs.

I'd have to agree with Susy and Deb. Your experiences, unfortunate though they may be, seem to have left you with a viewpoint that you are unable to shake. I don't see how or why you would want to be a nurse either, given your lack of respect for, or understanding of our education and scope of practice.

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Oh and as far as a Vet Tech or anyone else calling themselves a nurse, I totally disagree. I believe that a person who through a proper nursing program and has taken the appropriate examination and has earned the right to call themselves a Nurse can call them selves a nurse.

Otherwise, you have a title based on your qualifications and if you took a licensure examination that gave you the title of Vet. Tech., then guess what? you are a Vet. Tech., not a nurse.

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Existing thread by SusyK about the same topic.....

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25512&highlight=vet+tech

Carry on....

Heather

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