the vultures are circling

[CRNI-ICU20]

Hi Everyone,

I had an experience today in the ICU that I work at. One of my patients who was recovering first day post op from a AAA was given a SubQ infusion pump that delivers marcaine to the incisional area....it runs on it's own...it is called On Q....

Okay, here's the weird part....

Two drug reps show up on the unit, one introduces herself as "HI, I am nurse so and so....and I work with Dr. So and So...(the doctor who had performed the AAA) and I was wondering if I and my collegue here could go talk with your patient about his Sub Q pump to see how it's working for him....?"

I asked nurse So and So, "so, you work with Dr. So and So?" and she said yes...

So then I said, "and who is this person with you?"

And she admitted that the person with her was a drug rep from the company that supplies the infusions for this particular pump.

Then I looked at her name tag, and it had the logo of the company that makes the On Q pump on it....

So then I asked, "so...you work for Dr. So and So....did he give his permission for you to see this patient?"

She then got kinda nervous, and said, "well not really."

I said, "well, if you work with him, why wouldn't he know you are here, or give permission?" She then admitted to me that she was in fact, a medical device salesperson for ON Q pumps.....and she was gathering patient data on the pumps....efficacy etc....

I had a realllllllll problem with this....

First, she lied to me to gain access to the patient.

Second, she was SELLING her product in a patient care area...an ICU for pete' sake!!

Third: She had not cleared her access in accordance with hospital policy....

So, I take it to my supervisor after I told the sales reps NO!!

My supervisor, who I believe is clearly on another planet said, "Well, NO HARM DONE."

WHAAAAAT??

Okay...let me get this straight, you are allowing post op patients to be innundated by sales-vultures from drug companies now???

Are you freakin' kidding me????

So, I called the Doctor, whom I have a good professional relationship with.

He was INCENSED that someone would be allowed in the hospital, use his name to gain access to the patient, and then go interview the patient, which also included looking at the insertion site...ie, lifting his gown..exposing his private parts....to two female strangers....

Does anyone find this just appalling??? unethical? more than "No harm done?"

Has this ever happened at your hospitals?

ARe drug reps now coming in to see if their drugs are "going well" for the patients while in the hospital???

I am shakin' my head.....

CRNI:smackingf

[Gromit]

The very fact that they not only misrepresented themselves (saying "I'm so and sos' nurse" or that they worked for doctor X) to gain access to the patient in the FIRST place would be grounds for not only calling security to escort them out, but I'd also make a call to their company and complain about this unethical (and probably illegal -hippa violation possibly? depending on what they talked the patient into showing them? ).

Good catch on your part! Even better that you called the doc -I bet he calls their company and talks to them about it!

[justme1972]

Couldn't that possibly be a privacy violation? After all, the drug rep, if their primary purpose in being there is to sell something and not for patient care, I would think that it would be and the drug rep has no business there.

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

Omg, I cannot imagine being half out of it after a surgery and zonked on pain meds and then having two DRUG REPS assess my site??!!!

Please report this to Risk Management. Your supervisor is wrong, you were right to protect the patient, and really, this needs to go straight up the chain to your Admin--and the drug company's. It was nice that the doc was furious, but I think you really have the ball on this one and you need to run with it.

This should not ever happen to any patient again.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

If a company is doing post-approval studies of efficacy, they need to have that study approved by the facility IRB and participants (patients) need to have informed consent before being interviewed, evaluated, etc. Even if the "gathering patient data" doesn't require interviewing the patient, IRB approval is required for them to see the charts.

This is what I was thinking as well. You should have had some kind of documentation of the patient participating in a research study noted in the chart. I agree that the IRB needs to be notified regarding the reps' unethical manner of collecting their efficacy data.

[hbgwan, LPN, LVN]

i'm currently a medical sales rep (although i mainly see urologists' patients). i hate it and want out. "why?" do you ask? well, for reasons such as this. in this field people will do anything (and i mean anything) to get the sale or to get the doctor to push their drug (i'm not one of those people). i refuse to bend myself to practices that are not ethical. i see reps all the time and i see how they act. this behavior, however unethical, does not surprise me in the slightest.

i can't wait to get into nursing and away from this vulture-like activity!

[CRNI-ICU20]

Thank you all for the feedback.....

I went ahead and called Risk Mngmt. today....they were very happy to hear from me....and said that this was NOT OK!!

So....I am glad I did this...

God forbid someone should be laying in an ICU and have a lurid company rep. swooping down over them to look at their body parts...

The whole thing just baffles me...ugh.

[Guest717236]

The health care system is driven by money.

Good for you for being a patient advocate and

protecting your patients rights for safety and privacy.

The patients Doctor should take it up with his attorney,

using his name to get access to his patients inpatient

violates his rights.

Your nurse supervisor would be on Planet Lawsuit if any harm

had come to the patient.

Document everything on a risk management form for your

protection as well.

As if you don't have enough to worry about working on your

unit, mystery guests should not be an added worry.

You did great work!

[oramar]

I would not allow anyone to speak a patient under these circumstances unless there was a signed release prior to surgery. You see this patient would not be considered capable at this point of giving consent to anything.

[scrubsnhugsRN]

It really makes me wonder how often that rep gets away with saying I work with Dr. So and So, and gets cleared to see pt's. Seems to me that she must have said it before and was suprised when you dugg for more information.

Kudos...great job!!!!!!

[fultzymom]

Good for you for denying them access to a patient. I think that I would contact their company et file a complaint. Or someone from the hospital. They should not be allowed access to patients without the doctor's permission. I think it is good you notified the doctor also. That was very unprofessional behavior of them. Is the doc going to try to file a complaint about them with the company?

[oramar]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the drug reps are out of control. Sometimes when I am waiting to see my doctor his waiting room has more drug reps than patients.

[June55Baby]

My question is, how did the reps know there was a patient, much less who the patient was who had the On Q ??? Seems like a HIPAA violation to me.