the vultures are circling

[CRNI-ICU20]

Hi Everyone,

I had an experience today in the ICU that I work at. One of my patients who was recovering first day post op from a AAA was given a SubQ infusion pump that delivers marcaine to the incisional area....it runs on it's own...it is called On Q....

Okay, here's the weird part....

Two drug reps show up on the unit, one introduces herself as "HI, I am nurse so and so....and I work with Dr. So and So...(the doctor who had performed the AAA) and I was wondering if I and my collegue here could go talk with your patient about his Sub Q pump to see how it's working for him....?"

I asked nurse So and So, "so, you work with Dr. So and So?" and she said yes...

So then I said, "and who is this person with you?"

And she admitted that the person with her was a drug rep from the company that supplies the infusions for this particular pump.

Then I looked at her name tag, and it had the logo of the company that makes the On Q pump on it....

So then I asked, "so...you work for Dr. So and So....did he give his permission for you to see this patient?"

She then got kinda nervous, and said, "well not really."

I said, "well, if you work with him, why wouldn't he know you are here, or give permission?" She then admitted to me that she was in fact, a medical device salesperson for ON Q pumps.....and she was gathering patient data on the pumps....efficacy etc....

I had a realllllllll problem with this....

First, she lied to me to gain access to the patient.

Second, she was SELLING her product in a patient care area...an ICU for pete' sake!!

Third: She had not cleared her access in accordance with hospital policy....

So, I take it to my supervisor after I told the sales reps NO!!

My supervisor, who I believe is clearly on another planet said, "Well, NO HARM DONE."

WHAAAAAT??

Okay...let me get this straight, you are allowing post op patients to be innundated by sales-vultures from drug companies now???

Are you freakin' kidding me????

So, I called the Doctor, whom I have a good professional relationship with.

He was INCENSED that someone would be allowed in the hospital, use his name to gain access to the patient, and then go interview the patient, which also included looking at the insertion site...ie, lifting his gown..exposing his private parts....to two female strangers....

Does anyone find this just appalling??? unethical? more than "No harm done?"

Has this ever happened at your hospitals?

ARe drug reps now coming in to see if their drugs are "going well" for the patients while in the hospital???

I am shakin' my head.....

CRNI:smackingf

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

I find it appalling. Unethical. And your nurse manager IS from another planet.

Good for you for calling the doc.

steph

[SICU Queen]

WOW... that's just unbelievable!! If I was a patient, I'd be super PO'd if someone disturbed my recovery to gather info. They can mail me a survey when I'm recovered and out of the hospital!!

I do know that the reps are present oftentimes during surgery. I also know firsthand that the OnQ pump is fantabulous, as I had one after my ACL replacement a few years back.

Still... I'm a little surprised that your supervisor didn't get a little more ticked off. It bothers me most that the rep lied to gain access. If she'd been up front, possibly you could have asked the patient if he was interested in talking with them, with full disclosure of who they were, but then HIPAA and hospital policies get all involved, and it all just seems like a bad idea now that I'm thinking about it.

Good call on your part.

[Jolie, BSN]

I would have called security to escort them out of the facility. I would also place them on our "Do Not Return" list.

Any sales/service rep who enters the building is required to have a temporary badge from purchasing indicating the date/time/and unit that they have permission to visit. Without having gone thru this procedure to identify themselves and their business in the facility, they should not be allowed back.

[Divergirl]

Reps are supposed to check in with purchasing before going to any place in the hospital. It's part of "compliance" You could also call the reps company and report her behavior to her district manager. She shouldn't have lied.

[suzanne4, RN]

They actually need to be reported to your Materials Management/Purchasing Dept that handles all vendors and removed from the approved list. All vendors; and that is what these two are, must have approval to even be in the hospital in the first place and usually have a badge stating that they can be there. For them to break every rule in the book should not be permitted.

I am sure that their company would love to hear about their unprofessional behavior. And the patient has already had the pump placed in the surgical suite so there is nothing for these two to sell at this time. But can also bet that the surgeon will be getting into contact with the company and he has every right to. But they now stand to lose any sales that they would have gotten for this behavior.

They overstepped their boundaries and did not have permission from the physician to even visit his patient in the ICU either.

[EarthChild1130]

That is one of the most terrible things I've ever read!! Good for you for sticking to your gut feelings!!!!

As for the reps::trout:

[EmerNurse, BSN, RN]

If a company is doing post-approval studies of efficacy, they need to have that study approved by the facility IRB and participants (patients) need to have informed consent before being interviewed, evaluated, etc. Even if the "gathering patient data" doesn't require interviewing the patient, IRB approval is required for them to see the charts.

I worked for a number of years in CV clinical research (AAA stents among them, ironically) and no rep would have dared come into our hospital to gather any kind of anything from anyone without the proper approvals.

These reps were beyond out of line - report their activities to the IRB - might be that they did other studies there and the investigators of those studies might want to know what the company is up to. As for your nurse manager - pluto I'm thinking.

[TazziRN, RN]

In addition to reporting them to Materials Management, I would be calling the company's PR department and telling them what happened. Good for you for kicking them out.

[burn out]

I would go over the mangers head, at least file an incident report to Risk Management and keep the heat on their heels until you get an answer how this happened.There are several breeches in security here. And we wonder how babies get stolen from hospitals.

[TrudyRN]

I am sure that their company would love to hear about their unprofessional behavior.

Had to laugh. I've been reading an oldie moldie book. "Strong Medicine" by Arthur Haley or Hailey, I forget the spelling.

Their company probably told them to say it, LOL. :lol2:

[TrudyRN]

I'm wondering if maybe your supervisor isn't aware of how unethical and illegal this behavior is.

The one who said she was a nurse - is she? Did she impersonate a nurse? That's illegal.

Using the Doc's name without permission (or is he just embarrassed and scared to admit that he did give his permission) - that is illegal.

Do report this to the BRN and Hospital Ethics Committee and the DON and everyone else you can think of.

These 2 could have been killers, for God's sake, disguised as drug and device reps.