Surgeon halts operation over foreign nurses' poor English

Nurses General Nursing

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Zounds! Figured it would come to this ... notice the idiot suits are threatening the Doctor ... suits not at all medically-oriented with concern for standards and safety -- or common sense :o

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http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/22/nurs22.xml

7/22/2002, by Richard Eden

Surgeon halts operation over foreign nurses' poor English

A surgeon at a leading hospital has said he had to stop halfway through an operation because foreign nurses could not follow his instructions. As a result, he said he has been threatened with disciplinary action for racism.

David Nunn, a consultant orthopaedic surgeon at Guy's and St Thomas's Hospitals, in London, told The Telegraph that he was unable to complete the operation last week without certain instruments.

When he asked the nurses, all of whom were foreign, to find them, "I was met with a selection of bemused reactions," he said. "They were produced only when the scrub nurse de-scrubbed and went to find them herself."

Mr Dunn, 48, said his superiors had accused him of racism and threatened him with being disciplined. "But we should not allow political correctness to prevent these problems from being aired."

Half of the nurses newly registered in the year to March - 15,000 - came from overseas. Ten years ago foreign nurses accounted for only a tenth.

Mr Dunn said: "The world has been scoured for nurses to shore up the health service and to achieve arbitrary targets set by the Government.

"All are without doubt well-trained and dedicated professionals, but if medical staff cannot communicate effectively then patients' care may be put at risk."

A spokesman for Guy's and St Thomas's said the matter was being investigated. He expressed surprise that "the media has been involved before it is concluded".

He said that nurses from abroad went through an "adaptation programme" and had to pass a clinical test involving "an assessment of their written and verbal communication skills".

All hospitals offer induction courses for nurses from abroad, but these concentrate on clinical and professional competence, not on English.

A Department of Health spokesman said there were no mandatory tests for nurses' ability in English.

It's not just nurses! We have a whole slew of doctors that are next to impossible to understand. And there are many with thick accents and a poor grasp on English that cop an attitude because WE don't understand THEM! Did someone drop the hospital into a foreing country while I was busy trying to pull 3 vented crashing patients out of the plumbing????

What's that saying, "when in Rome...."

Originally posted by shay

NEVER!!! YOU WILL ALL BE INDOCTRINATED BY MY CONSERVATIVE DOGMA!!! UNTIL THEN, NO CREDIT WILL BE GIVEN!! ;)

Hee!

Can I interest you in a years' subscription to the Limbaugh Letter? ;)
Not unless it's softer and cheaper than regular toilet paper... :D

Well, I'm a Northern Belle relocated to Dixie (sort of), and I have a hard time understanding the locals! Anyway, I do believe that Surgeons are called Mr. in Britain because they were originally a naval posting, and Mr. is a term of repect in the navy!

I wholeheartedly agree that the surgeon had his patients best interest at hand. Isntead of pointing a finger saying:

"What good is it when someone can't speak English or understand an MD order",

I'll say...

"What good is it when I can't speak Spanish or Chinese and I'm in Mexico or China not understanding an MD order."

Monetary gain to support my relatives? To have a better life? All those answers are valid...But at who's expense?

At least my advantage would be English is known in most foreign countries, and I probably could communicate to somebody. I'm not sure I feel sorry for nurses who do not speak English who are practicing (or attempting to) here in the states. Again, I wanna know the motive (Ok...A better life?) and at what expense.

I know this post isn't showing much love, but this can be a touchy subject for me and I don't know what to do with it.....

"...God responds to 'Thank You' and gives me all I need. He did it all for me. Thank You, Lord, for all You've done for me."

MollyMo...

I know this is off the topic, but thank you for reminding me to thank Him. You'll never know how your signature blessed me today!

I do believe that this is PC run amuck. No one (at least in the establishment media) will EVER adress this issue either because it might offend some special interest groups. What a tragedy.

The beauty of liberalism is that liberals will have to live in the world they create. Hope they get some foreign nurse/doctor caring for them with little or NO english skills.

Originally posted by Stargazer

Not unless it's softer and cheaper than regular toilet paper... :D

:eek: DOH!! Good one....I show much respect, grasshopper. :)

The chart was in post# 30 on this thread, and it shows #'s of "infected" nurses " if the rate is the same as for the general population"

Btw, it shows the Phillipines as having NO hiv cases at all in the population. How accurate is that?

Specializes in CVOR,CNOR,NEURO,TRAUMA,TRANSPLANTS.

:devil: Being that I have traveled to a few off the wall countries myself and working in the OR I can tell you with my southern accent I have put a few surgeons into a tizzy , but I have always known the procedure to hand them what was needed. But do understand that Surgeons ask for "thing a ma bobs and doo hickis " all of the time. I commend the surgeon for stopping the procedure, I have had it happen in the current location Im Nursing at Now in Nebraska!!! We have a Nurse from another country that speaks 7 languages but sadly English isnt her best one. But she isnt short to find someone that can translate for her immediately when she needs something.

As for the language barrier : English isnt the worlds 1st spoken Language Mandarine Chinease is....... and other countrys it isnt mandated in school to teach English , but it seems that some of the recruiters for the hospital would make sure that theses issues as Language were clear and instituted prior to allowing them into clinical care. For patients saftey!!!!

Adios, Danke, Shalome, Thia, and thanks from this Southern Bell that currently Lives in Egypt lol.

I agree with most of you. Just wonder what are the criterias for selection done on those nurses who don't know how to speak English.

Once inEngland speak english that's their National language, Once in Vietnam speak Vietnamese, that's their langauge OH WAIT....

I knew very little Vietnamese because my Vietnamese colleagues don't want me to learn the language because I will be listening out on what they say during the meeting. They are scared of foreigners that speak their language at work....you know secrets.....

.Well well, I always feel guilty when in the taxi I will say "take me to Hilton Hotel" and the Taxi driver will be confused he don't understand I will try and find a word in Vietnamese.

This is because I should speak their langauge rather speaking english..........so now i memorised the word " kach san hilton"

LMAO.

OR "ngo mot tram bon muoi, Doi Can. ......phewwwwwwwww ROFLMFAO!!!!!:roll :roll

I'm with you, Sunnybrook. Trying to communicate with some of our foreign docs is near impossible....especially on the telephone...and what about the ones who still write like they've got a wet finger in a light socket!

Specializes in Trauma acute surgery, surgical ICU, PACU.

OK... this is probably un-pc of me... but here goes.

I agree that nurses who don't speak the language are a big safety risk, no matter where you are. I have caught nurses from other countries making mistakes with communication that range from minor misunderstandings to very serious.

My other pet peeve with "foreign" nurses is sort of a cultural problem... sometimes they just smile and nod and don't ask questions... they *act* as though they understand what you say and what is going on, but the understanding isn't really there. I sympathise with people who have to translate in their heads as they learn a new language.... and I know the frustration and bigotry they experience in society in general is hard to deal with. But I wish they would be more outwardly honest - for the sake of the patients!

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