Some questions for all the nurses - page 3
BSN nurses would you be happy with the LPN, RN, BSN etc, if You had something more to show for you degree? What I mean is this . What if when you graduated their was a destiction between a four,two... Read More
Jul 20, '02Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,276; Likes: 5I'm going through my orientation for my first job out of nursing school right now. It's a large teaching hospital, and a lot of the girls i'm orienting with just graduated from the school of nursing affiliated with the hospital. some of them are SO STUCK UP....they don't refer to themselves as NURSE they refer to themselves as BACHOLER DEGREE NURSES....it's all i can do to keep from saying
"HI....we are preparing to take the SAME state board exam, we are making the SAME amount of money at the SAME hospital...yet I went to school for 2 less years, graduated with NO student loans.... who appears to be smarter now?" just to see what they would say.
WHY DOES IT MATTER?!?!?? okay, i can see it mattering when you are in a charge/management/preceptorship position, BUT WHY DOES IT MATTER WHEN YOU ARE JUST STARTING?!?!?
Jul 20, '02Occupation: Charge nurse Specialty: 5 year(s) of experience in Med/Surg ; Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 51; Likes: 4i was in a BSN program and decided to leave and get my LPN. I was going no where. The school kept adding classes and even though I had already put in 2 years i had a good 3 more to go. At this school they don't even have clinicals until the end of your 3rd year. You can be the smartest person in your class but if you don't have a clue what you are doing at the bedside you mine as well go home. I agree with mattsmom81. Some of these BSN nurses don't have a clue about bedside nursing. They can tell you all about a certian diease process and thats it. Some of the best nurses I work with are LPN's, dipolma nurses, or ADN's. To tell you the truth I bet the average person doesn't care if you are a LPN, dipolma nurse, ADN, BSN, or MSN. They just want the best care for themselves or their loved ones. Just get over the letters and do your job. And that's helping people get back on their feet after an illness or injury.
Jul 20, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 5,673; Likes: 159I wouldn't oppose a $.50/hr extra for BSN prepared nurses. Hospitals often pay extra for certifications, so this would be fine with me....to compensate them for the extra year or so they spent in college.
What I object to is the elitism many of the BSN programs propogate.....in a day and age where nurses need to band together, they are splitting our ranks.
IMO, unionization is probably our best option now to bring us all to the same table to organize and negotiate, and improve our workplace and better patient care.
Jul 20, '02Occupation: Nurse Educator: love those students! Specialty: Med/Surg,ER,L&D,ICU,OR,nrs. educator ; Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 968; Likes: 41Experience, level of education, performance....they ALL matter.
A nurse is a nurse is a nurse? Posted by a nurse? Oh, MY!
I get a better "once over" by my NP than by any MD I've ever seen. Is she paid the same? Why not? Education level. Is it fair, no way. Life isn't fair. If we like what we are doing, perhaps we can focus on that, rather than worrying about what's going on with anyone else. Schools are open to all, so hit the books if equalily is what's missing. Even taking a financial class can make you a better bedside nurse/hospital employee on many levels. Is that hospital based and making orienting easier on you today? No. Does it make you better in the long run? I think yes.
Jul 20, '02Occupation: RN in Nursing Education; House Supervision; Editor RNdex Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 427; Likes: 9"They refer to themselves as bachelor degree nurses" WalMart_ADN
Well, isn't that just too precious for words. Just think of how terribly insecure they must feel if they have to pump themselves up each and every time they speak.
The debate on education goes on and on without resolution primarily because we cannot and will not agree to talk about the same thing. My public opinion is that a nurse is a nurse. The legal opinion is a nurse is a nurse. Privately, my opinion is that the nursing should be a post baccalaureate degree, just like physicians, lawyers, and other professionals. That's the operative, not that the education is better but that it's the professional thing to do. I don't want to start anything here. All I'm saying that until nurses are educated like professionals they won't be considered professionals. The other professions started out as apprenticeship types of education. They didn't lose the apprenticeship part, they placed it after a basic college education.
(shields up, Mr. Scott)
Jul 21, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 65I am a baccalaureate degree nurse. In my senior year nursing courses the professor actually told us that as BSN's we were better than the Ad's(associate degree) and the dips(diploma grads) (her words NOT MINE). I for one have never felt that way. When I started in the hospital the nurse training me who was a Diploma grad asked me what hospital I got my Diploma from. She honestly thought that because of my attitude and skill level that I was a diploma grad. She was shocked when I told her that I graduated from _University with a Bachelor's degree.
I started my nursing schooling career out at a local hospital based diploma program fresh out of high school. I "flunked out" with 6 months left to go in that program. Rather than wait a year to get back in their program, I decided to go to the local State Supported University for my Bachelor's degree. I had considered attending the local private Catholic Universities ADN program but after figuring out what it would cost me in tuition money, it turned out to be cheaper for me to attend the state university and get my 4 year degree!
Even so, there were a LOT of things that I didn't learn until I got in the hospital setting. I had only ever given a total of 4 IM injections in Nursing school, even when I was in that diploma program, I was never given much opportunity for that. I NEVER started an IV. They(my bacc. program) told us that all hospitals had an IV team so we wouldn't need to bother learning how to start one. The hospital that I work for ( for only another 6 working days, I work 3 12's a week) doesn't have one. I had to learn. Boy was that a hard skill to master. I'm still no master at IV's but I'm pretty good. I think though that my 4 year program did a good job at turning out good nurses. Just my opinion.Last edit by futureccrn on Jul 21, '02
Jul 21, '02Occupation: ARNP Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 137; Likes: 9Regardless of how many times this topic comes up...the answers will always be biased. Those who have the higher degree believe, and rightly so, that they should be appropriately compensated for their education. Those who don't have a higher degree believe that "we" shouldn't be compensated for our education. I have my BSN. Am I compensated? Only by my own happiness in my accomplishment. I have two weeks left in the MSN FNP program. WIll I be compensated for the higer degree...I certainly hope so. Do I deserve it....Hell YEH.
Jul 21, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 5,673; Likes: 159This topic has been hashed out before, but for the record I would support a national mandate on BSN as entry level...grandfathering all the current ADN and Diploma nurses (I would not support forcing them to return to college)
I would support this as a way to unite nurses and make a point to hospital administrators, doctors and the public....we are professionals.
And of course nurse practitioners should get a salary boost...and I am not against an extra buck an hour for a BSN...or a specialty certification, etc...but experience should also be rewarded . Sadly, it often is not....and we see green new grads hiring on at similar rates of pay as the oldtimers which doesn't make for a lot of love.
Jul 21, '02Joined: May '01; Posts: 365; Likes: 1I was thinking about this subject yesterday.
More or less I was thinking if I could turn back the pages would I get an ADN or a BSN.
As someone else mentioned I didn't know the difference of ADN or BSN. (the length of studying and the benefits....I even went to a counselor prior to obtaining a nursing degree)
The counselor I seen was at a local community college. He told me point blank I'd never make it into their nursing program and FORGET getting into the local University program. There was no option in my eyes I had to go to the University. And yep I got in NO PROBLEM.
But I don't see any benefits getting your BSN. It doesn't seem like establishment (hospitals, clinics) encourage or give benefits for BSN's. Unless you want to get your Master's or a few other routes....moneywise there's no benefit of getting your BSN.
And yes I think BSN testing should pertain to all the extended stuff we learned. I was amazed it wasn't included.
And regarding this BSN VS. ADN .... the nurses I've worked with in different establishments...this was never a discussion. There are R.N.'s that are "better" and "more organized" but we never bring up the issue BSN or ADN. I really only see it on the Internet. Does everyone else see friction between nurses VS BSN and ADN in their establishment???
Jul 21, '02Occupation: RN in Nursing Education; House Supervision; Editor RNdex Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 427; Likes: 9I work in two different community hospitals and am aware of no friction based on academic degree held in either. In one of the facilities, there are a number of MSNs who choose to work as bedside nurses, still none of the I'm better because I have more letters after my name.
When the letters after your name impress you so much you have to make a point of them every chance you get, I call it insecurity. It's then up to me to decide how I'm going to respond. Usually, I go with amusement.
Jul 27, '02Occupation: Research Assistant & NAII Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 16I have seen a different kind of discrimination, though. I am working as an NA, doing my best to learn as many skills as possible. I work very hard, and NEVER say "that isn't my job". However, when some ADN nurses or students learn that I go to "that" nursing school (a prestigous BSN program), they openly say things like "some of the worst nurses have come from that program" or "you're not getting enough clinical, it's all useless theory" (not true) or "i'm glad I didn't go to THAT school" etc... I have learned to never tell nurses/students that I'm attending this program, for they have preconceived notions about the kind of students that come out of the program. I keep it secret, unless I'm asked.
They perceive us as lazy, elitist, unskilled, and afraid to touch patients or do the "dirty work". The truth is, I have been VERY impressed by my fellow students & graduates of my program. They are knowledgable and hard-working. I have NEVER met another student/graduate who has said that they want to be called "BSN nurses" or are "too good" to do certain work. I HAVE met a lot of prejudice & bias from some ADN nurses, at several of the local hospitals -- they are often quick to judge, unfriendly, and make a big deal of small errors that we may make in the learning process. They are often the ones that "eat their young" (us) rather than taking us under their wings to teach us a few necessary skills.
The truth is, many of my fellow students could have gone to medical school or some other lucrative field (we have 2 girls who were accepted into medical school but chose nursing instead, two engineers & one with a graduate degree from an ivy league college, several MSW social workers, and several other highly educated/experienced people). We chose to be NURSES. We want a college degree for personal satisfaction, and perhaps career advancement in the future. It's a personal choice, and I think it's horribly unfair to prejudge someone simply because they selected the BSN route.
Jul 27, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 75; Likes: 1I am a diploma nurse who completed my BSN while working full time. Let me just opine, here. I have gained NOTHING (both financially and academically) by getting my ********Nurse degree. I do the same job as my coworkers. (I did gain alot by getting my CCRN however). I too favor one unified profession but I think the current BSN programs stink. They have very little clinical focus, and even the theory is superficial. Come on, physical therapy programs get to do cadaver disection for their anatomy, but nursing anatomy is much more basic, while the other credit hours are filled with garbage such as management, delegation, and research. COme on. I have seen some BSN grads soooooo underprepared to touch patients that it is scary. Give them a staff of NAs & they can dlegate like hell though. I think the whole nursing education process needs revamped.
Jul 27, '02Occupation: Acute Rehab Nurse Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 311; Likes: 1rhona1......what do you mean 'harder exam'???? As in 'sitting for boards???' or college exams???
If your speaking of 'boards'........we all take the same test! When you graduate....be it 2yr, diploma, 4yr.......you sit for nursing boards.....no difference.
If your speaking of college exams.....2yr and 4 yr are basically the same too....
just wondering! Besides, I believe all nurses are equal, regardless of where you went to school or how long you went. We all have our special talents to give and we all deserve the utmost recongition, respect and PAY!!
Alot of the problems we are having now is some think they deserve more 'respect' and pay than "other" nurses.....Of course, if your teaching, upper management, etc....sure you should get more, but we nurses must stick together and stop the division stuff.......it's hard enough being a nurse and putting up with Doctor's and Patients........we need to support eachother!!