RN Clinical Teacher- no teaching experience? - page 3
Just curious what you think of this. I saw a job posting at work yesterday for a position as a clinical instructor for ADN program in my area. All they want is a willing RN/BSN with recent acute care... Read More
Aug 16, '02Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49I was an adjunct clinical instructor in OB for one semester for the local vocational college teaching first year ADN students. I felt plenty capable and effective in this position. It was the same college I had graduated from, so I was no stranger to the full time nursing instuctors. This college also has a good reputation and a consistantly high pass rate at boards. I think alot of us who have recent clinical experience could do very well as clinical instructors without prior "official" teaching experience. As some have said, we are teachers as nurses anyway. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and from the praise I received from the students, I guess it is safe to say the feeling was mutual.
Aug 16, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 562; Likes: 128Several of my "clinical facilitators" were brand-new grads who had little or NO experience in teaching OR in bedside nursing, but felt that they wanted to get more involved in teaching itself before going back to get a masters or whatever.
YES my education suffered from this, in my opinion. It still makes me mad to think of some of the things that could have been done better, ways in which I would have been better encouraged if I had been "facilitated" by someone with more experience and confidence....
Aug 16, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14Pebbles that is so true. a new grad should never be put in that position no matter how good they are or what their degree is. you need clinical experience to teach. i think at least one yr of experience should be required. the college I went to requires a masters degree and at least one yr recent clinical experience to teach.
i do not believe on needs formal teaching experience to be a teacher . i taught in my former profession and am a teacher now. I never had any formal teacher training neither has most of the instructors i have been associated with and meet over the yrs. I am considered a very good teacher by many, i got into teaching at the request of the dean from my college. so from personal experience i can say you do not need formal training to be agood teacher,but you do need clinical experience to be a good teacher. no matter how much we try to teach you in college there is still so much more to learn no one could possibly learn it all in college. it they say the did ,watch out for them they are dangerous. and my be full of s***. JMO
Aug 17, '02Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 8As most of you know I am an educator/ instructor too. These go together here, i have to teach in school and go to the wards with my students.
No MSN or BSN programs here, but I got a 2 years pedagogic training.
When you want to become an educator here, you have to be aRN for at least 5 years. Then you apply to a school, for 1/2 a year you get a mentor and after that time you are evaluated, when ok you can go to this training, when not, bye, bye.
It works pretty well, but black sheep are everywhere.
Aug 17, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Well I've had horrible experiences from excellent clinical nurses, like I've said, who were unable to verbalize their knowledge in a meaningful way to a new student. All I could do was possibly observe them, and hopefully pick up on some knowledge. Basically, I was gipped, in my opinion.
I don't believe in a nurse with no clinical experience but simply educated in teaching to teach either. Just as I don't believe in a nurse with clinical experience and NOT educated in teaching teach. Which is why I like my program. They want an RN with 5 years of clinical experience, and then our program focuses on on educational psychology, pedagogy, as Renee is schooled in, etc. These same principles can be applied to staff development, academia, or patient teaching. All of the students in my program also work in nursing while going to school, so what we learn in class we can apply in practice.
I have been shot down by horrible, horrible professors/instructors who simply could insert an IV well, but were unable to deliver the mechanism on HOW TO verbally to the students, and instead used intimidation to gain respect. In the long run, that doesn't work, and we all suffered as a result.
So, back to my original statement, the ad in which no teaching experience, etc was required is a reflection of the shortage of appropriately prepared nurses to teach. It's no different than shoving an OB nurse into an ICU to cope with a shortage there.
Aug 17, '02Occupation: Retired Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 2,246; Likes: 48Nursing schools are BUSINESSES, just like HMOs and other healthcare organizations.
When there is a high demand for nursing students (in part created by those same schools who didn't bother to teach their previous students how to realistically take care of themselves in the administratively abusive hospital settings they soon encountered--and shortly thereafter, left), they either come up with more instructors or lose the potential business.
What else would you expect?
This is life, not a dress rehearsal.
Aug 17, '02Occupation: Retired Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Women's health & post-partum ; From: OR, US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 567; Likes: 176I've found that I do very well teaching one on one with either patients or (precepting) students, but I have difficulty when faced with a classroom of individuals, each with their own learning style. I have great admiration for people who can teach such a group. I might think about picking up classes, except I'm pretty close to retirement, so I'll continue to muddle through if I have to.
I might add, a classroom of new mothers who speak only Spanish (I don't) and a male interpreter who's never had a child, much less been a mother, is a true challenge. I'm never sure they even understood, much less learned anything.
Aug 18, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14susy it sounds like you just had the bad luck of running into bad instuctors, it a real shame, but it is not directly related to one being taught how to teach. alot depends on the person, i for one never rely on intimidation. like i said before my students have done well usually above average. some people are meant to teach. just because someone is an excellent nurse does not mean they can be made into an excellent teacher. same holds true that an excellent teacher my not be an excellent nurse.
if an instructor resorts to intimidation or fear they are not doing a very good job of teaching just trying to cover up there lack of confidence. anyone is welcome to discuss my ability to teach with any one of my students. You will find them well educated and happy to have been in my group. they are well known in the local hospitals as being quality nurses upon graduation. so don't focus to much on the education experience issue. all the experience in the world will not make you a good teacher if you do not love to teach!
Aug 18, '02Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 3,872; Likes: 18originally posted by cathy wilson, rn
instructors should know what they are talking about as we ended up following the staff nurses. she was just clueless.
Aug 18, '02Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49I agree with alot that has been said here. The best clinical instructors need recent clinical experience to really be successful. I had more clinical experience than the regular MS degree, full time Maternal/Child Health instructor in the labor/delivery area. (She was more knowlegable in Peds.) This was definitly an advantage for me on the floor as a clinical instructor. For peds, I sometimes had to seek out the best staff on the floor to consult with. Knowing your limits and finding the answers is something teachers need to do as well! And as Mark already mentioned, some are meant to teach. (And, yes, indimidation is a very poor teaching tactic! Grrrr! Those types should not even be allowed to mentor!) I think the best teachers have a natural abitlity and are not taught. I have had some pretty dismal learning experiences with MS degree teachers who had been fumbling away at it in the classroom for years. They were smart enough, just couldn't teach well.
Aug 18, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Having an MSN doesn't qualify one to teach either. Ask Tim GNP (if he's still around) there are alot of concepts that should be taught to prospective educators that aren't.
Bottom line, I believe if someone wants to teach, they should attend an MSN in Nursing Education program. They ARE out there.
Aug 18, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14an MSN in nursing education still will not make them a good teacher. i can promise you that.
i have worked with many instructors that were MSN or Phd prepared to teach (supposedly),and they could not teach their way out of a paper bag,much less convey lessons to students. It is ridiculous and impossible to require only MSN or PHD prepared nurses that have lots of recent clinical experience be the requirement to teach. first off i don't think any such person exsists, 2ND if that was the requirement one would never get the chance to teach do to the fact that if you have no experience teaching you can not teach,and to get teaching experience you have to be a teacher. so that pretty much rules everyone out.
so don't judge a instructor on preconcieved notions of required experience and /or formal education.
this is especially true for clinical instructors, while you need clinical experience you don't need a masters degree to do it. just a love for teaching and the ability to relate and communicate to others. i am currently in a masters program, and have found nothing really usuful so far.But i will no how to write research propasals and papers really well. I can see where this will really help me teach clinicals.
the MSn in education theory is great ,but it will not make me a better instructor especially in clinicals.Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Aug 18, '02
Aug 18, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56An MSN in nursing education will give a dedicated, enthusiastic nurse who loves to teach the TOOLS to excel.
I LOVE gardening, but without at least some theoretical concepts in botany and forrestry, my "passion" and "love for it" will only take me so far.
Mark, we'll just have to agree to disagree, here. I firmly believe in adequate preparation for something as important as teaching. I don't, and will never, believe that anyone, by virtue of being a nurse or virtue of loving something will make them qualified. I am an OB nurse, but by my simple virtue of being a nurse, I am not qualified or adequately prepared to work in ICU. I may "love" nursing, and have a "passion" for caring for people, but that still doesn't make me qualified or prepared to be a critical care nurse.
This same holds true for nursing educators, in my opinion.