RN Clinical Teacher- no teaching experience?

Q. · Aug 18, 2002

Having an MSN doesn't qualify one to teach either. Ask Tim GNP (if he's still around) there are alot of concepts that should be taught to prospective educators that aren't.

Bottom line, I believe if someone wants to teach, they should attend an MSN in Nursing Education program. They ARE out there.

mark_LD_RN · Aug 19, 2002

an MSN in nursing education still will not make them a good teacher. i can promise you that.

i have worked with many instructors that were MSN or Phd prepared to teach (supposedly),and they could not teach their way out of a paper bag,much less convey lessons to students. It is ridiculous and impossible to require only MSN or PHD prepared nurses that have lots of recent clinical experience be the requirement to teach. first off i don't think any such person exsists, 2ND if that was the requirement one would never get the chance to teach do to the fact that if you have no experience teaching you can not teach,and to get teaching experience you have to be a teacher. so that pretty much rules everyone out.

so don't judge a instructor on preconcieved notions of required experience and /or formal education.

this is especially true for clinical instructors, while you need clinical experience you don't need a masters degree to do it. just a love for teaching and the ability to relate and communicate to others. i am currently in a masters program, and have found nothing really usuful so far.But i will no how to write research propasals and papers really well. I can see where this will really help me teach clinicals.

the MSn in education theory is great ,but it will not make me a better instructor especially in clinicals.

Q. · Aug 19, 2002

An MSN in nursing education will give a dedicated, enthusiastic nurse who loves to teach the TOOLS to excel.

I LOVE gardening, but without at least some theoretical concepts in botany and forrestry, my "passion" and "love for it" will only take me so far.

Mark, we'll just have to agree to disagree, here. I firmly believe in adequate preparation for something as important as teaching. I don't, and will never, believe that anyone, by virtue of being a nurse or virtue of loving something will make them qualified. I am an OB nurse, but by my simple virtue of being a nurse, I am not qualified or adequately prepared to work in ICU. I may "love" nursing, and have a "passion" for caring for people, but that still doesn't make me qualified or prepared to be a critical care nurse.

This same holds true for nursing educators, in my opinion.

mark_LD_RN · Aug 19, 2002

having a passion for a specialty area and teaching are two different animals all together. Just because you love it does not mean you have the knowledge for that specialty, that knowledge is gained by experience in that field. all the theory in the world will not prepare you for those areas.while i agree that being prepared to teach is a requirement, i do not believe A MSN or PHD will make you a better teach, this I know from personal experience. My students are as well prepared and i would say better prepared than those of instructors with such degrees.

to be a good instructor you most have knowledge of subject,not just teaching theories. you must love to teach. you must have the ability gain students trust,to convey your message and knowledge. encourage interaction and sharing of knowledge. (that is one reason why intimidation never works.) teachers need to remember the preceeding requirements.

to many nurse have went to teach for the wrong reasons,IE. tired of working the floor, could not take working as a nurse any longer and many more. I have heard these excuses many times from other instructors and you know what all the degrees in the world will not make them a good instructor because it is not what they really want to do

Q. · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by Susy K
Having an MSN doesn't qualify one to teach either. Ask Tim GNP (if he's still around) there are alot of concepts that should be taught to prospective educators that aren't.

I just thought this needed repeating.

I never said that having more degrees = better teaching ability.

I simply answered the original thread of why an ad was placed for a nursing educator position that didn't seem to require any other type of qualification, other than being a nurse. And all I said was that was a reflection of the nursing shortage. The shortage effects ALL areas of nursing, not just the floors.

For some reason I feel we have gotten off track here.

I love to teach as well, and have taught without any formal training, and learning things now while in my program only makes me able to reflect back on those teaching moments and realize what I could have or should have used in those interactions. I was able to look back and realize that I had objectives written all wrong, misread my students, and didn't take the time to realize how each person learns, and in fact, HOW people learn. Now maybe I am unique in that, and perhaps everyone else was aware of teaching strategies that have been proven through research, or takes into account educational psychology principles during instructional design, but I wasn't. Maybe all the reason I should be in school.

mark_LD_RN · Aug 19, 2002

Originally posted by kona2
Just curious what you think of this. I saw a job posting at work yesterday for a position as a clinical instructor for ADN program in my area. All they want is a willing RN/BSN with recent acute care experience. They don't care if you have ever taught or have any teaching experience. I was a little surprised by that. Nope, I am not applying to the job. I was just a little disappointed I guess. I know we nurses do precepting & teaching all the time. But I couldn't help think that they are being unfair to the student RNs by not even requiring a little formalized teaching experience from the clinical instructors. By the way, this ADN program has an excellent rep. What do you all think?

i read this as an ad for a clinical instructor, with the requirements being RB BSN with recent clinical experience.

that is one reason i replied in the way that i did. never saw a thing wrong with a person with experience teaching clinical never will,:) just as long as the can teach:)

sbic56, BSN, RN · Aug 19, 2002

Another very helpful factor in being a good teacher is life experience. I don't believe a 20 something nurse, advanced degrees or not, would be as qualified, in general, as someone who has been around the block a few times. As far as the MSN requirement and experience...well it probably took quite a few years just to achieve all those things, so the life experience is automatically included.

In answer to to kona2's original question:

Don't rely on the teachers degree to be a guarantee that the experience you get from this teacher will be what you expect. This is especially true in the clinical area. I think the BSN minimum with recent clinical experience is all that is required as the BSN nurse should have the theory to back up her rational when teaching in the clinical setting.

mario_ragucci · Aug 19, 2002

Reading this particular thread has blown a great gust of wind into my sails.

Vsummer1 · Aug 19, 2002

This thread really interested me as I am about to start my core courses on the 26th. We don't go to the hospital for the first 6 weeks until after we are checked off on things they teach us.

Luckily, I have met my clinical instructor (she also was teaching the Basic Life Support class required over the summer) and she impressed me as a good teacher. I remember at one point she asked the other instructor "I know we are supposed to teach this technique, but I have never used it, nor have I seen it used. Have you?" The other instructor said she had seen it once years ago, but that better techniques have been used. They then proceeded to teach the technique, but then went over a better technique they both said they actually have used.

To me, that is a good sign that the instructors are up to date. Neither one were over 50... does this sound like good instruction to you all or am I naive?

semstr · Aug 19, 2002

If you don't like teaching, or want to teach, you'll hardly apply for an educator job. Just my kind of logic.

The things you learn during your pedagogic studies are, as in all studies, sometimes very useful and other times full of s...

But........ you learn your ditactics, how to teach bigger groups, you are evaluated on your speach, on your mimics on your body language etc. etc.

You learn things other "lay-people" don't have profound knowledge of.

Isn't it the same with nursing? Everybody "knows" how to nurse a sick child or sick elderly, but we the professianals know better, don't we?

ok, enough, take care, Renee

zumalong · Aug 20, 2002

As I have continued to teach, I work on improving my communication skills etc. This is not a requirement from employer, but a wish to keep on top of nursing. One big difference that i have found is the younger students learning modalities. They don't like to sit for long periods of time being talked to. they love to discuss and interact. i usually try very hard to ask them questionsto encourage critical thinking (which is so lacking despite our ability to give it a name--when we used to teach it by increasing the amount of clinical practice--so you had to think critically)(but that is another post in itself).

I have had experience with very young nurses doing classroom and clinical (straight out of 4 yr degree, or even 2 year). I have found many of them to be lacking in clinical skills, and one is so immature that she "picks" her fav students and lets them have all the skills that arise in clinical. I have also seen older instructors who "pick" one student to hound until they break or drop out of program. This makes me sick--someday I am going to run my own idealized nursing school. i will hand pick my instructors, monitor them in classroom and clinical, and remove the ones who are not working well with my students. (My fantasy--when I win the lottery-haha).

semstr · Aug 20, 2002

Zumalong, I think you need a very experienced educator from Europe then, LOL