Is this legal? - page 2
I am just wondering if this is legal. At the LTC where I work, over the holiday's there is a sign posted that states, From Dec 23-Jan 3 you will not be allowed to call in sick. If you are ill,... Read More
Jan 1, '03Joined: Jan '03; Posts: 42In our neck of the woods, you can be fired for ANYTHING they choose--unless of course you violate a "civil" law. That is the only time you would have recourse for being fired. They can literally fire you, "just because they feel like it." "At will" employment.
Jan 1, '03Occupation: once a manager, now a staff nurse, preceptor, educator and practice member Specialty: 30 year(s) of experience in NICU, PICU, PACU ; From: FAM ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 2,796; Likes: 3,172I have my doubts that it is legal. They can fire you and if you pursued it with legal action, I am sure you would get your job back. Do you have a legal department within the facility that you can contact?
We can only be terminated if we are caught abusing the sick time..ie you call in on a day that you asked off for and was denyed and then someone sees you out and about and reports you.
Jan 1, '03Occupation: Critical Care Joined: Aug '00; Posts: 2,629; Likes: 20Too bad the entire group of employees didn't call off all at once, that would teach them a lesson.
Jan 1, '03Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,390; Likes: 16,596Of course they are union paranoid. They would have to treat better.
I'm not sure about the about them asking nurses to diagnose, they just want to see if you are really sick. Them being the only LTC in the area gives them too much power.
Here we can be fired for any reason or no reason, but they are so paranoid about being sued for any kind of reason, especially discrimination, it's very difficult to get fired here.
When we call in sick, they ask the nature of our illness, just to track if there is an infectious pattern. We can simply deny them that info though if we want and say "sick" and they have to accept that.
We had a call in today. Naturally, no help was available to cover her and her peers were screwed. But there's nothing that can be done about it. People do get sick on holidays.
Jan 1, '03Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53Well, in Florida, its a 'right to work' state. You can be fired (as my girlfriend puts it "for wearing the wrong color socks".)
Basically, your only recourse is if they violate a civil law (as in discrimination or some such.)
They would have to be true idiots to do that, though, with todays' sue-happy litigators.
Jan 1, '03Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 228; Likes: 6probably it is legal because several facilities do this and get away with it. if one person successfully sued they would stop this tactic. the one thing i hate is when they want a dr.'s note. i would not go through the hassle of spending money / time for a note. heck i'd probably go to work sick and be sure to pass plenty of germs in the supervisor's office.
Jan 1, '03Occupation: Quality Nurse & Home Health Nurse Joined: Dec '99; Posts: 3,786; Likes: 129I say bring on the unemployment if there are not that many places to work.
That is such a manipulating attempt to initimidate staff, it is beyond sickening. I would probably not show up for my next shift and never even return there ever. Bravo to those who quit that facility. How much better it is to lose 7 staff members than to try to be Staff-Friendly. Are call-outs such a problem on Holidays, or only b/c these notes meant to intimidate are posted. I guess they are not concerned with the remainder of the days they will be down seven staff members which will go well beyond the holiday season and will take how long to replace them?? Why not just say for everyone who shows up, we will give you a $250 bonus. That's what it would take to get agency staff in to replace regular staff, so why not just pass on the money as a reward for loyalty. I could honestly be swayed by a bonus of that much $$plus my OT rate for the holiday. ONly those who are truly ill would dare to miss that good free money!! IMHO.
Jan 1, '03Occupation: RN-i (RETIRED) Specialty: ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89 ; From: US ; Joined: May '00; Posts: 14,479; Likes: 2,298http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Labor.htm
This is a list of all the states labor statutes.
I don't belong to a union; not sure I would if I were working either. But I do know many, many places do things that are illegal because they are the BIG DOG and the little dog (US) can't afford to see what happens if we do not follow the leader.
Jan 2, '03Joined: Dec '01; Posts: 2,865; Likes: 15forgive my frazzled little brain but
HOW CAN THAT BE LEGAL????
unlawful termination no?
discrimination of sorts no?
manipulation of employees no?
I would hightail it outta there pronto
legal or not , which I'm sure its NOT, thats just awful, talk about lack of common decency and compassion, damn
Jan 2, '03Joined: Jan '03; Posts: 42Well, thanks for your response. As I said before, I might be looking for another job after today. I have set hours with school and am off on Monday and Tues. Well, my mistake, I didn't check the schedule and seems I was on for Tuesday to make up for my off holiday on Wednesday. But as I said, I didn't check the schedule since it is set for me. My ringer was off on my phone so they tried to call and call. Finally got ahold of me Tues. I explained what happened, said SORRY! and the assist. DON tells me I will have to "discuss it with _______(DON) on Thurs. because "it falls within the holiday call in policy"(you call in without coming in and you are fired) So we will see. I thought, wait.........I DIDNT CALL IN!! I have not called in for 6 months!! If I really wanted the day off, my daughter WAS sick and I could have drug her into the facility to VERIFY she was (as per policy) So OBVIOUSLY it was an oversight on my part. What did they think, that I just thought, Hmmmm...... I'll not show up on Tuesday and then ACT like I didn't know I had to work.....YEAH, that will work!!! Of course the scheduling person told the DON (while she was on the phone with me) that she TOLD me the day before that I had to work......Right.......sure you did. This is the same scheduling person who put me on the schedule on a day I had class. I had written her 3 notes with my new schedule on it and she everyone else that my note said a different day than it did, and then told the DON that......SHE NEVER GOT ANY NOTE!!!!! Sheesh.
Jan 2, '03Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49Badbird I like your idea............ohio is at will as well. Hard way to work. I would let them know your opinion of them as an employer has been changed forever.
Jan 2, '03Occupation: Nurse Educator Specialty: 16 year(s) of experience in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 12,037; Likes: 6,467What about FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act)? Aren't these jokers violating a FEDERAL LAW?
Jan 2, '03Occupation: CRNA Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 2,000; Likes: 66Again, management not understanding the words "nursing shortage." Personally, I'd find another job, then when giving my notice at my old job, I'd hand them a copy of this new policy, and tell them they really ought to consider not driving employees away with Ebenezer Scrooge-like policies. If there are problem employees, address the problem with those employees. Don't proactively punish us all. Of course, as an RN, if the facility asked me to evaluate sick employees, I'd still tell them to stick it. You want someone evaluated, get a physician. I'm not getting sued for making diagnostic decisions.
Edited to add: As for legality, yeah, it probably is. Definitely is if you live in an "at will" state, like Kansas.