How serious is a verbal warning really?

[ZSimzNeuroNurse]

Hey, all!

To provide an introduction and some background, I am a 23-year old nurse who works in NC at a nationally-acclaimed Magnet hospital and this month marks 13 months that I have been practicing in the nursing profession. I have spent all of this time working on a cardiac telemetry unit, however, I am slated to start my new job in the Neurosurgical ICU in just 11 days.

The company I work for has a very specific, linear absenteeism protocol for supervisors to follow regarding, well, employee absences. You are allowed 3 without any reprimand whatsoever, and any absences taken in consistency (Ex: calling out all 3 days in a week) are considered a single absence "event," which is essentially one absence in the eyes of the employer. The 4th absence or absence event results in a simple informal verbal warning with no real consequence; however, the following absences result in a formal verbal warning, written warning, a final warning, and termination.

My question is: I have just called out for my 5th time and I am afraid this will affect my job status and/or will cause my manager to place a freeze on my already-approved transfer to NSICU. How serious is a formal verbal warning? I am a diligent and reliable employee who has never been reprimanded for anything, and often regarded with a high degree of respect and warmth by my all of my colleagues, including my supervisors and manager. Taking this into consideration, am I in trouble next time I go to work? Should I be concerned for my job? I have a lot of anxiety, so I am already giving myself a stress ulcer.

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

PP Mavrick's post is very RIGHT ON. And contrary to most others' thoughts, I think your verbal warning should NOT be looked upon lightly.

Just curious, how many days (as versus 'events') are you actually permitted per year? I think you may be pushing the limit. And your HN/manager might now be having to get down to the real bolts & nuts of your absenteeism.

For every day you're not at work, another nurse gets plugged in (think overtime) or the unit works short (think morale). Employers need employees to be on the job. Pt care still needs to be delivered. And you're getting to the point where you can't be counted upon. Sorry, that you're not feeling well, but that's not the employer's responsibility. You may be getting a reputation and your prospective new manager may not want to take a chance with you.

So a verbal warning may not be that innocuous as it seems, and more likely than not, it does start that nefarious 'paper trail' against you. It could be verrrry easy for a sudden change to delay your transfer, as in, 'we can't spare you to leave YET' or 'mgt is holding all transfers right now'.

As others have said, check out FMLA. But just know that is may NOT provide you with the magic 'pass card' that you desire. You're kind of an older newbie; I've seen senior staff broadsided for excessive absenteeism even when truly needed for their health needs. NOONE is exempt. Once that paper trail is started, you need to proceed cautiously (altho there are some here on AN that feel differently).

Good luck.

What a depressing world view. Hospitals should have adequate float or PRN staff to cover call-outs. If my illness is not their responsibility, their lack of planning is not my responsibility. Are you against taking vacations too?

[Crush]

My facility has similar rules/policy about call ins but we are safe if we utilize FMLA or have a doctor's note.

If I am sick, I am sick and not willing to chance sharing it with co-workers or patients. I will tough it out on some things but if there is a chance I might share it, I stay home. I have never had a warning for using sick time/PTO.

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

Being out 5 times or 5 sets or occurrences? If you work flex then it is red flag if you only there 13 months,if you want to transfer ,this might hold up your transfer.Take the verbal warning for what it is a warning,be careful,and remember if you get the transfer you are under probation for maybe 6 months.

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

If there is a pattern to your sick calls especially since you are allowed 3 no questions asked as in the ESTA rules,then you are on the radar. To threaten to come in vomiting is not a good idea even if you are thinking of it.

[Creamsoda, ASN, RN]

Sure it could affect your transfer. And honestly I wouldnt have even bothered calling the manager. Especially if all the paperwork was done. You just bring attention to it. But if its just a verbal warning, your probably fine. My workplace has the same rule. After 4 occurences you get an informal verbal. 5 is a written. More than then that more written, and eventually termination.

If your sick your sick. Sounds like you arent exagerating. Sometimes you just get crap luck in a year and get sick too many times. Your only a 4. Im sure you will have an occurances that will fall off soon anyway. I always try to keep in mind when my occurences are. Not that I can do anything about getting sick but just good to keep in mind and if I have too many and risk getting a verbal, maybe ill realize im not as sick as I thought I was. I really hate calling in sick and dont do it often enough to get any verbals. But you are a new nurse, its stressfull, you exposed to a lot. Make sure your handwashing a lot as you should be anyway to protect yourself. If you handoff things like phones or pagers, shared tools etc at work, wipe them down at the start of your shift, wipe down keyboards, etc. Get lots of sleep and exercise. Managers look for patterns. That takes some time to notice. Youve only been there a year. Its the employees that have been there a few years and are chronically riding the line that you start to notice patterns.

Also make sure you are taking time off and utilizing your PTO. Or if you work a lot of shifts in a row, maybe dont do that if you just end up getting sick and worn down.

[LovingLife123]

PP Mavrick's post is very RIGHT ON. And contrary to most others' thoughts, I think your verbal warning should NOT be looked upon lightly.

Just curious, how many days (as versus 'events') are you actually permitted per year? I think you may be pushing the limit. And your HN/manager might now be having to get down to the real bolts & nuts of your absenteeism.

For every day you're not at work, another nurse gets plugged in (think overtime) or the unit works short (think morale). Employers need employees to be on the job. Pt care still needs to be delivered. And you're getting to the point where you can't be counted upon. Sorry, that you're not feeling well, but that's not the employer's responsibility. You may be getting a reputation and your prospective new manager may not want to take a chance with you.

So a verbal warning may not be that innocuous as it seems, and more likely than not, it does start that nefarious 'paper trail' against you. It could be verrrry easy for a sudden change to delay your transfer, as in, 'we can't spare you to leave YET' or 'mgt is holding all transfers right now'.

As others have said, check out FMLA. But just know that is may NOT provide you with the magic 'pass card' that you desire. You're kind of an older newbie; I've seen senior staff broadsided for excessive absenteeism even when truly needed for their health needs. NOONE is exempt. Once that paper trail is started, you need to proceed cautiously (altho there are some here on AN that feel differently).

Good luck.

This is not true at my hospital. We have a float pool dept. My unit never works short. We never take more than 2 patients. If people call out we have a staffing dept that decides who goes to what unit.

It's my PTO time. I earned it.

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

Yeah that's a silly rule. Sick days are for calling in sick. Getting a disciplinary action for the flu is just stupid

Especially when you've received the vaccine and you probably contracted the flu from one of your patients that got a script for tamiflu on discharge but was not receiving it or on isolation while they were admitted (I know, it's ineffective after so many days but that's a whole different issue!) so you were so hacked all over for 12 hours...

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

Every time I have been sick enough to call in, I make sure to get a doctor's note stating what I have (amazing how influenza type A shuts people up fast) and take a picture of it and any scripts I had filled. That note with the tamiflu script followed by a Medrol dose pack and robitussin with codiene syrup picture in an email got me the response email of ‘some things are better off kept at home. Feel better'.

I'm not saying that it's going to make the policy go "bye bye" so to speak, but it shows that there is a legitimate reason that you were out, not just a crappy cold (which sucks but it happens).

HR even stated that this was policy but if there's a personal issue to address it with your manager because there are ways around it. This was after I said ‘ six occurrences is a heck of a lot of call offs'.

That being said I'm usually the one to catch the bug at work, either from the patient that was never placed on isolation or from the employee that came in because of the policy...which then created more absences from everyone who got it from them.

I will refuse to take on an chemo or reverse isolation patient if I come in sick. The stupid mask only does so much....and everyone just loves what the smell of Halls means....

[turtlesRcool]

I don't want a sick nurse caring for me or my loved ones when they're fresh post op or with cancer even with a mask. That mask doesn't stop a virus, red checks or not.

I was recently "fired" by a patient and his wife for being sick myself. I had a strange cold. It started with a bit of sore throat on Friday, and woke up Saturday with no voice - not coughing, not congested, but just no voice. By Sunday still no voice. Monday voice coming back, but intermittent cough from post nasal drip. You bet I wore a mask the whole time I was at work.

Late Monday afternoon, a fresh post-op came up, and when I was doing the admission assessment, his wife politely fired me. No problem. I just switched with another nurse. There was some eye-rolling and laughing from from of my colleagues, but I do understand family's concern. Even though I wasn't "that sick," certainly not sick enough to justify a call-out, most patients are already more susceptible to infection than the general public, and should be able to count on their caregivers being in good health.

[Have Nurse, ADN, RN]

The only one who can answer all of those questions to your satisfaction is your Supervisor. Sit down and have a quiet respectful conversation with her to clear the air. If it happens to affect your transfer, ask her what you might do to rectify it.

[MrsMRN]

It sounds to me like the ONLY reason that you are worried at this point is because of your transfer, correct? Otherwise it wouldn't necessarily be a "big deal". If it were me, I would do my best to show up to work and not miss a day through transfer, and then push through as long as I can without another call out. You want to get your transfer, and then make a good impression on your next supervisor. Sick is sick, and through what I call "sick season" of fall and winter, 5 call outs is nothing....as long as you are showing up on time, working hard, communicating with your supervisor, etc while you are at work. I dont believe anyone should come to work with a frequent cough, fever, body aches, etc. However if you are calling out because of a sore throat, runny nose, or any other minor symptom, then I would have a different opinion. Good luck with your transfer!!!

[Footballnut]

I take policies seriously since they can be used if needed even if they are not generally put into practice. I have a recurring health issue that I expect to be resolved in the next few months. I talked it over with my supervisor and to protect my job I applied for intermittent leave. Fortunately my boss and the staff I work with are very supportive. And I make sure to give back everything I can.