Do Nurses Earn Big Money? You Decide. - page 10

Am I the only one who becomes at least mildly irritated whenever a random individual finds out that someone is a nurse and proceeds to say, "You're rolling in the big bucks!" To keep things... Read More

  1. by   Ntheboat2
    Quote from tewdles
    My bold and italic.
    I had a family member like that. The family spoke to her...let her know that it was NOT OKAY. Some of us helped her with job skills, resumes, transportation, etc. She got off her arse and got productive.

    The system is there for people who need it. Some people will always abuse it. In my thinking, that does not mean that we should treat all persons receiving aid as cheats and consider cutting the safety net for many because of the bad actions of the few.
    I agree. I've seen a lot of people abuse the system too and some of them were/are my own family members. My sister has made a lifestyle out of it. She has made the Salvation Army's "Angel Tree" a habit and an expectation which I've also seen many, many people do. Instead of using it as a last resort, they just make plans to use it because they know they can. Sort of like the woman you see at the grocery store who buys $400 worth of crappy food with a food stamp card and then her boyfriend steps up behind her and buys beer and/or cigarettes. Some people have no shame. Not that there should be shame in using food stamps because that's NOT what I'm saying, but at least have the humility to buy your beer somewhere else. I got WIC for my baby and I would've been too embarrassed to be buying beer after the guy behind me just saw me get a bunch of free milk when he's about to pay for his.

    Now, obviously...I've taken advantage of different forms of assistance at certain times in my life. When I was a single, working mom going to school full time I needed a little help and I was grateful to have it. I did use it wisely (childcare assistance so I could work and go to school, for example). Considering that those programs are out there, there's really no reason for anyone NOT to better themselves. I know a girl who got childcare assistance, food stamps, insurance, housing, AND they would pay for her gas to and from work. I used to have to sign off on her mileage sheet. They would've reimbursed the gas to/from school as well had she chosen to go. I used to ask my (older) sister why she didn't go to college so she could get out of that hole. Her excuse was always, "I have kids." That's what I've heard from so many of the system's abusers. Of course, after I had a child and went to school, that excuse didn't work so well. Not that I even bother asking anymore. I know the answer, and for a lot of people it's, "I don't want to." The kid excuse annoys me though. There's no better REASON to better yourself than your kids. They should be a motivation, not an excuse.

    I don't envy those people at all though or get angry that they're getting "free food" or that they have the luxury of never missing their child's play since they don't work. Yeah, thoughts cross my mind like with the example above of the guy buying beer while using a food stamp card. However, I had the option to have that life (and who doesn't have that option, really) but I didn't want it. It's a crappy way to live. It's humiliating to have to go to the DHS office and let someone look at your bank statement, ask where your child's father is, ask how many hours you're working, etc. If you get housing assistance, they can come in your house and inspect it anytime.

    Then, there are the kids. I used to be so embarrassed as a kid when I had to go to the store with a family member and they were using food stamps. I was embarrassed that I got free lunch, and let's face it, everybody knows who gets free lunch. I was even embarrassed to tell people where my mom worked. My kids don't have any of those worries. It sounds silly, but those things are important to kids. Mine don't even know what food stamps ARE and they're proud of what I do and used to do for a living. All of the work I had to do for myself and my kids to have that pride is priceless. I wouldn't trade it for a "magic grocery store card" or free rent.

    Anyone who thinks, "it must be nice" to have those "benefits" should try it out sometime. The grass actually IS greener on this side!
  2. by   Ntheboat2
    Quote from mcuatlacuatl
    Its funny that you should mention plumbers... my brother is in his 3rd year of his apprenticeship as a plumber and makes $1 less an hour than I do as an RN in a dialysis unit... and yep next year he will be making $3 more an hour than me while he is still considered a student. I often tell him while I respect what he does and there is definately a need for his craft... I dont think those dealing with human lives should make less than someone playing with pipes
    I got a CNA job before I went back to nursing school and I made $7.25. I drove by McDonald's one day after work and there was a sign up advertising starting pay for employees was $8.00. That says something about American values!
    Quote from charli_apple
    Point taken. When I read the article, I interpreted it as Carla raising 3 kids on 12/hr and she got assistance with rent, childcare, and food. If the government assisted her with something, that doesnt mean that everything was free on her part. 12/hr is $25,000 a year. So without childcare assistance she would pay at LEAST $10,000 a year in childcare alone. My point was that the government only gives the poorest of the poor assistance. 12/hr for a family of 4 is living BELOW poverty level. The government's help brought her up no farther than poverty level and RN's live no where near there.
    Op says that "Carla" has less disposable income now making $50k a year and no government assistance than she did making $12 an hour with government assistance. Government paid 100% of food (Food stamp card), housing (Section 8), medical (medicaid) and child care. Leaving her only unavoidable responsibility being utilities... So yes, her entire $12 an hour (minus taxes and utilities) was disposable income whereas after she got her RN, she only had $300 a month disposable income. Really, "Carla" was assisted to a level WELL past a working RN now that I think about it...
    @ Ntheboat2

    for some reason I'm not getting a "Like" button your posts, so I' waiting my time letting you know by typing this one
    @ Ntheboat2

    Never mind. Must've been a glitch. Just hit the buttons!
  6. by   Ntheboat2
    Op says that "Carla" has less disposable income now making $50k a year and no government assistance than she did making $12 an hour with government assistance. Government paid 100% of food (Food stamp card), housing (Section 8), medical (medicaid) and child care. Leaving her only unavoidable responsibility being utilities... So yes, her entire $12 an hour (minus taxes and utilities) was disposable income whereas after she got her RN, she only had $300 a month disposable income. Really, "Carla" was assisted to a level WELL past a working RN now that I think about it...
    That's not actually how it works. Assistance doesn't automatically mean free. When I was a single mother I wasn't even making $12 an hour and I didn't qualify for section 8 because it's based on income. That was fine with me...I'm just saying. Some people who get section 8 actually pay several hundred dollars rent. If the house is $800 per month, they might be paying $600 of that....or they might just be paying $100. We can't know.

    Same with childcare. I got childcare assistance, but it wasn't free. I paid about $75 a week instead of the $200 it actually cost. So, we can't assume that "Carla" only had to pay for utilities. That's exactly WHY some people choose NOT to work. If she quit her job and didn't work at all then section 8 would've paid 100% of her rent. That's exactly how the system that's meant to help ends up being abused. The more you work, the less you get. That's logical to most of us, but it's not logical to people who are working their butts off and staying broke while the people around them (who are also in "the system") get to stay home all day and don't have to pay for anything.
  7. by   BostonTerrierLoverRN
    Well call me liberal (I always thought of myself a conservative.) But, I don't begrudge those kids getting chips, or fed with food stamps, and I certainly wouldn't want to trade places with any of them, even if it meant a free home. I am perfectly happy to work for what I have, but It's cold outside tonight, and those children didn't ask to be born to system users and abusers. So that's how I live with the current system; I couldn't live with putting a child in the cold with nothing to eat- just to get one or two "sorry" people off the line. I know a single mom like this- and it's her children who I worry about, not her poor choices. I balk at the fact that I discharge people daily who are "wrecks" but can't get disability. If they have children, it's a horror story. So do I like the net and all it brings- NO could it run better- YES. Do I want it ended? NO. And by the way, to heavier regulate it would cost more tax dollars. I believe taking care of the weak in our society is what makes the USA Great.
  8. by   anotherone
    single nurse who has made that choice so far. and will factor kids in with my pay rate. as should everyone having children.... but that is off topic.
  9. by   BostonTerrierLoverRN
    ...and I totally agree that the more children, the more they get. But, it's the child in that situation. If a single Nurse looses their job, by all means, get in line. It's the child with no choice, no ability to change it, and totally innocently in need that I advocate for- and in this situation I sure wouldn't mind the Nurse who has paid in for years to SS to get help as well. For those- I don't mind the pay coming out of my check, or charitable giving. Because but by the grace of God -or good luck -I have been blessed.
  10. by   Ntheboat2
    That's true, but at the same time you can't factor in everything that's gonna be thrown at you in life. Even responsible people with good jobs who have children can find themselves in situations they never imagined. Husbands cheat...become drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. (wives do too). All of a sudden you're a single parent with a 1,000 or more daycare bill. Either that or you stay with the which case you'd also be judged.

    I know a lady who had a perfectly healthy child and her husband and she both had good jobs, nice cars, a nice home, etc. The kid got sick one day and ended up being in the hospital for several months and coded once. They both lost their jobs, let their cars go back, lost their home, and ended up on food stamps. Did they stay there? No. The point is - things happen no matter how great you are at making choices. You just never have a clue why someone is in the situation they are in so it's best not to assume.
  11. by   anotherone
    yes, I know all about luck and those without it. But let's not pretend that was all it was for many. I grew up surrounded by poor people . Some were in bad situations because of many bad,stupid, or selfish choices. generations of this. I don't cry/care about money used for charitable or gov assistant programs because it is a drop in the bucket. It is not going to decrease. But it isn't always a case of bad luck or misfortune. If you can't support yourself now, you have no business having a child and expecting the burden to fall on others. period. I recently read an article on how many young people are choosing not to have children due to financial reasons. I suspect many of these are people that wouldnt qualify for help anyway
  12. by   Racer15
    It's all relative, I suppose. I make less than $9.50 an hour. I also qualify for no government aid whatsoever. I barely scrape by each month, and I am fairly frugal. I will be TRIPLING my income when I graduate in two weeks. I will easily be able to afford all of my bills, buy a new car, and then next year once my student loans are mostly paid off, I'll be able to afford the one thing I've always wanted, a horse. I'll be making more with my ADN, than my mother does as a therapist with a master's degree. For the amount of education required, nurses make good money.
  13. by   Ntheboat2
    I'm not saying that's the reason for most or even many (see my previous post). I'm just saying you can't assume that everyone in a bad situation made a series of bad choices. When someone is on food stamps, housing, etc. and then gets pregnant? Yeah, probably not so smart. Some people don't think that way though because like you said....there's been generations of bad choices. You have parents of teenagers letting their boyfriends/girlfriends stay all night or even live with them. Teenagers of course are going to want to "stay all night" with the "love of their life" if their parents will let them. Unfortunately, there are parents who actually allow that crap...because their parents let them...etc. I was completely expected to be a teen mom and not from my own doing. It would've been easier to become a failure coming from generations of that though. Trying to break a bad cycle is hard because not only is there no support, but there's often resentment. "oh, you think you're better than everyone." My mom would actually babysit for my sister so she could go to the club, but not for me so I could go to work or school. I think the big picture has a lot more in it than just an individual's choices.

    Those choices happen in "high class" families also. It just so happens that the parents, grandparents, etc. have money to enable the choices. Ever watched "Teen Mom"? The name Chelsea/Adam might ring a bell. Poor people seem to be judged more harshly for their poor choices, even if they're the same or not as bad as a rich person's choice. That's why you see a poor man on the news who spent 40+ years in prison for stealing a TV and then you see some white collar crook who stole millions being "reprimanded."

    I went through a second degree program and it was full of people with master's degrees who had made a series of good choices, but then lost their jobs and qualified for food stamps and/or medicaid. There just seems to be a stigma that if you get food stamps, medicaid, childcare assistance....or whatever....then you made bad choices, had kids when you shouldn't have, etc, etc. That IS common, but with the economy the way it is now, it's definitely not always true.