"The Victim" and the "Big Ole Meanie who Made Her Cry"

Nurses General Nursing

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i've always wondered why when there's a "communication difficulty," the person who says what they mean and means what they say is usually the one blamed for it. when someone bursts into tears at work, why are they always "the victim" and the person who was trying to tell them something they didn't like, couldn't understand or disagreed with was "the big old meanie who made them cry"?

we have a wonderful charge nurse -- always helpful, knowlegeable, well-organized. she's a great resource and i really enjoy working with her. her only flaw, if it can be called a flaw, is that she has a very direct style of communication. i overheard a series of exchanges where she was trying to convince a relatively new nurse that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments and nursing care and keep her documentation up to date. i was working next to this nurse, and picking up a lot of her slack. she wasn't keeping up -- and we weren't busy. hortense (not her name, but one you'll likely remember!) kept asking her if she needed help and what we could do to help her get her patient ready to transfer at 1100. myrtle (also not her name) kept saying she was doing fine, everything was ok, etc. yet 1100 came, and her patient still needed a bath, lines pulled, dressings changed and her charting done. myrtle had spent her morning rushing about doing stuff, but not really getting anything done. hortense and i stepped up and got the patient ready and transferred by 1200, the room cleaned and set up by 1245 because we had a new patient coming out of the or at 1300. myrtle continued to ineffectually flit around, but didn't get anything done.

finally, when myrtle complained about taking the new admission because she hadn't had lunch yet, hortense calmly but clearly explained to her that had she been able to transfer her patient by the allotted time, she'd have had an hour for lunch plus another half hour to relieve me for lunch and as it was none of the three of us had had lunch. she wasn't mean about it, just clear and factual. myrtle burst into tears and ran to the manager, complaining that hortense was being "mean to her." hortense and i both explained the situation to the manager, but the upshot is that hortense is being counseled about her "communication skills". i think myrtle ought to be going to the communications class with her. if hortense was too direct, myrtle obviously wasn't direct enough because she clearly wasn't "getting" what hortense and i had been trying to tell her all morning.

so when one staff member bursts into tears at work, why is the fault always seen to be the person who "made them cry." why don't we blame the person who bursts into tears at work? if they were capable of communicating directly and factually and understanding direct communication, they might not need to be talked to several times before the point gets across and perhaps emotions wouldn't be so high for everyone.

I have lived with that spoiled boomer perception since I was a child. The people who first describe people my age as self centered were the WWII generation and their parents. People of the WWII generation who wrote about those things were usually better educated and from a middle classs or upper middle class white collar or professional background. They were mostly speaking of their own children who they considered spoiled brats who had life a lot easier than they did. I was born in '48 and am from a blue collar back ground. Most boomers especially early boomer born between '46 and '55 were not from middle and upper middle class backgrounds but from lower middle class backgrounds just like me, a lot were just plane poor. Honestly, I swear to you life was really hard when I was young. I was hungry at times, I was cold at times, at times I couldn't get to school cause I had no coat or boots. When I did get to school I would hide in a stairwell at lunch so I would not smell the food cooking because I did not have money for lunch, there was no food at home to brown bag it. The really difficult days were sporatic, in the '50s and early '60 the economy was very slow at times and better at other times. When the mills were working more we lived better. I am not complaining, I had it much better than people I knew who were bone jarringly poor every day of the week, every week of the year. One of the people I knew as "one of those poor kids" is my DH. His father was shell shocked during WWII and had PTS very bad and could not hold down a job. My husband's parents had six children who were very poorly fed and sheltered indeed. My hubby's strongest memory is of being homeless and standing in the snow with his mother and siblings with no where to go. His father was most likely lying dead drunk in a gutter somewhere. Believe it or not, neither of us has suffered any permanant damage from tough times. If anything we are both tough as nails. We are now comfortably middle class with nice paid for home, nice pensions and well educated, well balanced adult children. I just am afraid that everyone believes what they hear about people my age. I don't believe everything I hear about 30 somethings, or 20 somethings. Matter of fact I am really good at recognizing sterotypes for what they are and am slow to pass judgement.

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
Recognizing when you need help is part of becoming a professional, as knowing when to take help when it is offered. You're the one that should know that you need help not your coworkers, nor should it be their responsibility to tell you. Your coworkers are not mind readers nor will they necessarily be fully aware what is actually needed when they offer assistance. I think sometimes people confuse needing help as a weakness, when the truth is knowing when to seek help/assistance/advice is a strength. When help is offered and you need it, take it, someone may not be able to help you later.

She had been told repeated that she needed to get up to speed with her assessments, nursing care, and documentation. She had also been told that the patient needed to be ready to be transferred by 11:00. She was asked what did she need help with to get this patient ready by that time, she insisted she was fine and everything was OK. She should have known at some point before 11:00 that she was behind. At 11:00 her coworkers got the patient ready for transfer because she hadn't. She was complaining about receiving a new admission BECAUSE SHE hadn't had lunch yet, she didn't express concern over anyone else having lunch, I'm sure she would know she would have relieve another in order for them to have lunch. What Hortense was pointing out to her was the fact that had the patient been ready for transfer when he/she was supposed to be, she could have had lunch AND relieved another so that they could have had their lunch. Actually it was a great opportunity to point out how her time management impacts not only herself. Yes it was said in front of a coworker, I don't think it was entirely inappropriate, it can sometimes be in one's best interest to have a witness present. I don't think this was a situation of the charge nurse "punishing" her by denying her lunch, if that was the case then she would have been the only one not to have lunch.

Exactly! I read that thinking, "Come on, grow up already!" At what point do we stop hand-holding? It doesn't sound like she was on orientation or just off orientation, which would have been a bit different. Please...how much (or how little) are we to expect of our co-workers? If I have to start reminding people "If you don't do 'x,' then you won't get to lunch on time," well, that's just ridiculous. That's the sort of thing you expect to hear in kindergarten, but with adults? No way.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

i think there is some truth to this. i am shocked by the amount of twenty year olds that do not have jobs or that think it is no big deal to not have some sort of plan for the future! or they think working at a low level job is beneath them. sigh, we all started somewhere.

this was great and you made great points. call me harsh, call me mean but i really think people have to realize that newbs are still dealing with patients lives. sure we can mentor and guide but let us get them on the ball too!

when i was precepted, i worked with a bunch of experienced nurses that had a little bit of a reputation for being "mean". were they? no they really were not. they just didn't react well to newbs like myrtle. there were a lot of direct communicators and i learned quickly to take the wise things they told me and use them to my full advantage.

myrtle should have done the same. now she's alienated 2 nurses. too bad for her.

i too am shocked by the number of 20-somethings who seem to believe that they deserve (and should have) everything they want right now just because they want it. they don't want to put in their time on nights before moving to days, don't want to "waste time" on an entry level position, and don't want to move into their own apartments because they have all the toys living with mom and dad and can use their paychecks to buy more toys rather than "wasting it" on rent, utilities and groceries!

what shocks me even more is the folks who have obviously never had any negative feedback in their lives, believe they don't deserve any, and have no idea how to accept it. anytime you say anything they don't like, don't agree with or don't want to hear, they burst into tears or run to the manager saying you're being mean to them. i'm sorry, but no one is perfect, especially not when they're brand new. so how in the world are you going to give them constructive feedback? they'll accuse you of being mean because you've told them something negative and implied (or stated) that they aren't as perfect as mummy and daddy always assured them they were!

i have enough problems managing my assignment and yours and trying to point out the ways in which you could save time, improve patient care, not kill your patient without worrying about teaching you to accept constructive criticism in an adult manner!

Specializes in MS, Hospice, LTC.

I am curious as to why this thread seems to be turning into complaints about people in their 20's. I've met people of all ages from all walks of life, and I'm surprised at the 50-somethings who don't have a job, or have yet to begin preparing for their future. I think mentoring, guiding and getting someone "on the ball" can be done without being harsh. If you've seen one of my earlier posts, I worked with a nurse who 30+ yrs of exp, and was always crying at the drop of a dime. AGE has nothing to do with it, perception does. NOw, I wasn't there and I know Myrtle or Hortense, but I do know some people use tears to manipulate, and someone else may truly need the release. I don't think the person who started this thread meant to start a generational debate, and I don't think the complaints about 20- somethings are warranted.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I am curious as to why this thread seems to be turning into complaints about people in their 20's. I've met people of all ages from all walks of life, and I'm surprised at the 50-somethings who don't have a job, or have yet to begin preparing for their future. I think mentoring, guiding and getting someone "on the ball" can be done without being harsh. If you've seen one of my earlier posts, I worked with a nurse who 30+ yrs of exp, and was always crying at the drop of a dime. AGE has nothing to do with it, perception does. NOw, I wasn't there and I know Myrtle or Hortense, but I do know some people use tears to manipulate, and someone else may truly need the release. I don't think the person who started this thread meant to start a generational debate, and I don't think the complaints about 20- somethings are warranted.

I don't think we are having a generational debate and I don't think we are complaining about 20 somethings. I think the conversation evolved into the average differences between generations regarding hypersensitivity and criticism.

There is a difference between understanding differences between groups and complaining about individuals.

I'll leave it at that because I'm not the OP, and this isn't my thread.

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.

It's just as shocking to me and many others when there are numerous threads and posts lambasting older nurses. It's unusual to see posts go in the opposite direction. That doesn't make it right, but perhaps it will make some of the younger members see how the constant rants against older/experienced nurses make some of the members here feel.

Specializes in MS, Hospice, LTC.
i think there is some truth to this. i am shocked by the amount of twenty year olds that do not have jobs or that think it is no big deal to not have some sort of plan for the future! or they think working at a low level job is beneath them. sigh, we all started somewhere.

this was great and you made great points. call me harsh, call me mean but i really think people have to realize that newbs are still dealing with patients lives. sure we can mentor and guide but let us get them on the ball too!

when i was precepted, i worked with a bunch of experienced nurses that had a little bit of a reputation for being "mean". were they? no they really were not. they just didn't react well to newbs like myrtle. there were a lot of direct communicators and i learned quickly to take the wise things they told me and use them to my full advantage.

myrtle should have done the same. now she's alienated 2 nurses. too bad for her.

i too am shocked by the number of 20-somethings who seem to believe that they deserve (and should have) everything they want right now just because they want it. they don't want to put in their time on nights before moving to days, don't want to "waste time" on an entry level position, and don't want to move into their own apartments because they have all the toys living with mom and dad and can use their paychecks to buy more toys rather than "wasting it" on rent, utilities and groceries!

what shocks me even more is the folks who have obviously never had any negative feedback in their lives, believe they don't deserve any, and have no idea how to accept it. anytime you say anything they don't like, don't agree with or don't want to hear, they burst into tears or run to the manager saying you're being mean to them. i'm sorry, but no one is perfect, especially not when they're brand new. so how in the world are you going to give them constructive feedback? they'll accuse you of being mean because you've told them something negative and implied (or stated) that they aren't as perfect as mummy and daddy always assured them they were!

i have enough problems managing my assignment and yours and trying to point out the ways in which you could save time, improve patient care, not kill your patient without worrying about teaching you to accept constructive criticism in an adult manner!

i'm sorry. i just find the above so offensive. this is no represents me or any of the other 20-somethings i know. i thought we were talking about myrtle and hortense here. i have yet to experience any of the meaness and rudeness that i've heard happens to newer nurses, and i have almost a year under my belt. constructive criticism on the hand, i have experienced and received well. i just wonder how these feelings about gen x's may carry over into your working relationship them/ us. you could give constructive criticism to any one of my coworkers who aren't as close to thirty as i am, and they don't go run off crying the nm. i witnessed one coworker (just turned 21) be reamed out in front of everyone at the nurses station by another nurse. she professionally put her in her place and went back to pt. care. maybe she cried when she went home, i don't know. what i do know is that she remained, as she always does when i work with her, a professional. and since some of you here seem to have been born a nurse, have patience with those of us that weren't.

Specializes in MS, Hospice, LTC.
I don't think we are having a generational debate and I don't think we are complaining about 20 somethings. I think the conversation evolved into the average differences between generations regarding hypersensitivity and criticism.

There is a difference between understanding differences between groups and complaining about individuals.

I'll leave it at that because I'm not the OP, and this isn't my thread.

I really do want to apologize if I have offended anyone. I just don't get the feeling that the majority of these posts are an attempt to understand differences btn groups. They're more or less generealizations about people in the 20's being lazy people with a sense of entitlement.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I really do want to apologize if I have offended anyone. I just don't get the feeling that the majority of these posts are an attempt to understand differences btn groups. They're more or less generealizations about people in the 20's being lazy people with a sense of entitlement.

Ruby needed to vent about her experience. That is valid and understandable.

There are real issues regarding each generation. It would be wrong to make assumptions about any particular individual. However, anybody in management will tell you that overall, younger generations are becoming more hypersensitive and fragile regarding criticism. This is a challenge in the work place. In fact, some could interpret your reaction you have posted in this thread as an example.

This is an area of study within psychology and sociology.

There was a time when employees did not even consider crying in the workplace. There was a time when people were not so fragile when corrected. They just said "OK" and went about their business. Perhaps it is because younger generations have experienced more freedom of expression and exploration of feelings so much. I see it in places like my psych class where students over-react to grades and seem to have some sort of entitlement attitude. Yes, they do. In addition, they tend to try to turn class discussions into group therapy. These sorts of trends carry over into the workplace.

In my opinion, I have seen nurses of all ages and experience who just "don't get it". I had a 50 yr old come up to the desk on an extremely busy day when no one had lunch and proclaim, "why is it i'm the only one who does any work around here?!" yet she is the one who is not able to get her work done, frequently causing her co-workers to pick up the slack. If you are not organized and efficient, you always feel overworked and overwhelmed.

I think open and honest communication is important, whether it's a new nurse or an experienced one. It is much better to have an authority figure talk to you than to have co-workers feeling resentment behind your back. Feedback is a good thing, otherwise, how can we ever improve if we don't know what we need to work on?

Specializes in Onc/Hem, School/Community.
A lot has been written about the current crop of twentysomethings being unwilling to put their time in at entry-level jobs in general. They don't believe they should have to earn the privilege of a weekday shift, for example, or have so many years of experience before being promoted to a supervisory experience. They want meaningful work right off the bat; and to their credit, a lot of them are willing to negotiate their way around work they don't want to do. When they can't, they often leave. Unemployment has no stigma. (For what it's worth, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on Gen Xers.)

None of that applies to Myrtle, nor necessarily to new professionals in any aspect of health care. And we've all worked with twentysomethings who are fantastic and can teach the rest of us a thing or two.

As for whether people have to pay dues, it's been my experience that people who've got years of experience -- some, not all -- believe that newbies earn their privileges.

I'm a forty-something nursing student and go to school with "the self-esteem generation." Not all, but most want their degrees on a silver platter. I feel that tact and understanding are necessary in communication; however, it seems to me that most use whatever communication skills they DO have to get out of doing any real work. Sorry, off topic. Can you tell I had a bad day in clinicals? ;)

Specializes in Onc/Hem, School/Community.
Actually, this topic of sensitivity to criticism and tendency towards tears came up in a psych class I'm taking. The professor said that studies have been done that show the self-esteem movement in the 80's and 90's with small children has created a generation with distorted self-esteem. You know - the children who all received trophies on their soccer teams...every single one...no matter how good or bad they were...or if they showed up much. The Dr. gave specific examples of these studies.

The professor said that this is manifesting primarily with the Millennial generation now. The Millennials are the generation more recent than the gen X'ers. If anything, gen X'ers have a need for autonomy and efficiency. The trend in parenting and eduction was starting a bit with the Gen X generation, but not nearly to the degree as with the Millennials.

[bANANA]Great post! I totally agree with you![/bANANA]

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