"Are you saved?" How do YOU deal with these types of questions

danu3 · Apr 6, 2005

Oops........my bad. :chuckle Obviously I'm not much of a historian either, or I wouldn't have goofed this up. Thanks for the correction, premnrs!
Like you, I too have wondered many times throughout the course of my life why the Jews have been persecuted for so many centuries.......I grew up in a very conservative home where some of my older relatives called them "Christ-killers", but I never figured out why, since He Himself was a Jew, and it was the Romans who actually crucified Him. Granted, the Jews of that time were no help whatsoever, but as I understand it, all of this was part of God's plan for our salvation......the Jews and the Romans were merely the instruments He used to carry it out. That doesn't justify what's been done to the Jewish people in the millenia since then.......but that's a subject for another thread, which I'M not going to start. :)

First of all, the "Christians" who call Jews "Christ-killers" really do not know about their own faith at all. Actually one may even doubt whether they are really Christian at all, at least from what we know from the Chrisitan Bible.

In my opinion, this is a case of people using their religion (Christianity in this case) to do evil. Sort of doing evil in the name of good. This is like the radical Islam we have today to kill people who disagree with them (they really do not know their own Islamic faith either just like these people do not know about Christianity).

For example, as you pointed out already, Jesus is a Jew himself. All the early Christians were Jews. It was the Jewish Christians who open up Christianity to the gentiles. When the Christian Scripture uses the word "Jews" in a negative sense, if one just spend a little time to look at the context, it is refering to the Jewish religious leaders of that day. Jesus biggest condemation were against the religious leaders of his days (which happens to be Jewish). That rasies another interesting question, would Jesus condemn the religious leaders of our days also (in the context of NC, would that be the Christians?).

-Dan

callnurse45 · Apr 6, 2005

It is really great to read the about the different experiences we all have had with the religious beliefs of, not only our patients, but with co-workers as well. I have not run into the problem so much when I worked in a hospital setting, but now that I am in peoples' homes on a daily basis, it does come up. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am a Buddhist, and as such, my goal is to treat everyone with compassion. The one thing that is universal regarding religion or spirituality, is faith. A great number of my patients are homebound with chronic, debillitating, and sometimes terminal illnesses, and have responded very well to encouragement. I do not consider myself a religious person, but readily accept my spirituality. That is the way I interact with patients as well as co-workers. Sometimes, during a dialogue, I do get asked, "what church do you go to". I usually say, "because of my work schedule, I carry my church in my heart". They are usually satisfied with that. Living here in NC, I have to measure my responses very carefully, and thoughtfully. It is indeed, a work in progress.

Faeriewand, ASN, RN · Apr 6, 2005

it all boils down to freedom of speech. they have the right to ask you the questions about salvation, but you also have the right to not discuss it.
personally, i am offended by the millions of children murdered each year in their mother's wombs. i am offended that our nation allowed a handicapped woman to starve for almost 2 weeks before she died, yet we euthanize animals with more humanity. i am offended that there is soooo much sexuality on the tv, radio, newspaper, magazines, everyhwere. i am offended at the horrible language in all the media, the violence. i am offended by the homosexual lifestyle choice. however, i have the right to choose to not participate in the things that offend me (see above list), just as you do (conversations about salvation).
i agree that your job as a nurse is first and foremost to care for the patient's medical condition(s). i think you should explain to the patient that this is your focus and that you would be happy to ask someone with more training in spiritual matters to speak to them about their spiritual condition. i don't think that a rude, smart alec answer ("let's save your poop") will do anything to benefit you or the patient.
"a kind answer turns away wrath"
.

i don't think it has as much to do with freedom of speech as it has to do with good manners.

your little guy bowing down and the saying after it reminded me of that small town in oregon that was taken over by some huge religious group i think from india and renamed (gosh anyone remember that?) it was in the 1980's. the townspeople wore shirts that said,

"better dead than red!" :chuckle

MedicalZebra · Apr 6, 2005

It just amazes me that people forget the fact that Jesus came here to be crucified-- his death was predestined and was going to happen regardless of who was used to help it happen.

So... it really isn't anyone's 'fault'-- not the Jews or the Romans.

Faeriewand, ASN, RN · Apr 7, 2005

it all boils down to freedom of speech. they have the right to ask you the questions about salvation, but you also have the right to not discuss it.
personally, i am offended by the millions of children murdered each year in their mother's wombs. i am offended that our nation allowed a handicapped woman to starve for almost 2 weeks before she died, yet we euthanize animals with more humanity. i am offended that there is soooo much sexuality on the tv, radio, newspaper, magazines, everyhwere. i am offended at the horrible language in all the media, the violence. i am offended by the homosexual lifestyle choice. however, i have the right to choose to not participate in the things that offend me (see above list), just as you do (conversations about salvation).
i agree that your job as a nurse is first and foremost to care for the patient's medical condition(s). i think you should explain to the patient that this is your focus and that you would be happy to ask someone with more training in spiritual matters to speak to them about their spiritual condition. i don't think that a rude, smart alec answer ("let's save your poop") will do anything to benefit you or the patient.
"a kind answer turns away wrath"
also, i don't think patients understand all the red tape you have to deal with in terms of hospital policies. if you explain that you could be reprimanded for such a discussion, then i think they would back off (and you could be in trouble if you 'offend' them and they write an ugly letter complaining to administration)
if your atheistic/agnostic beliefs are so strong and that patient is so offensive, then couldn't you ask your charge nurse to reassign you because you felt that your religious beliefs were being violated?
i am sure that some might be offended by reading my post (as i was offended by reading their posts), but it all boils down to freedom of speech. i am not attacking anyone, just stating what i believe.
lifelongstudent,
--:bowingpur thanks be to god that i live in a red state (and a red country)!
p.s. for the patient who wanted "two or more gathered"... i think this passage refers to two or more believers (christians), so an agnostic nurse and a christian patient would not be adequate.... maybe i am mistaken.

here is that guy! for some reason it did not get in my first post! :uhoh3:

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Apr 7, 2005

I don't think it has as much to do with freedom of speech as it has to do with good manners.
Your little guy bowing down and the saying after it reminded me of that small town in Oregon that was taken over by some huge religious group I think from India and renamed (gosh anyone remember that?) It was in the 1980's. The townspeople wore shirts that said,
"Better dead than red!" :chuckle

OMG, that was the Baghwan Shree Rajneesh........his followers were called the Rajneeshees, and they named the town Camp Rajneesh, I think (that WAS a long time ago). He was one scary dude.......I think if things had gone on much longer, that we'd have had another Guyana on our hands here, as in "would someone please pass the poisoned Koolaid"? :uhoh3: Yeesh.

lifeLONGstudent · Apr 7, 2005

the red stuff was for the poster who was glad to live in a blue state and vowed to never live in a red state again... :chuckle i was supporting my red state!

i don't want to offend anyone (collegues or patients). i would not discuss it (my salvation) with a patient because ultimately i don't want it to be a wedge between us. what if i don't give the answer they are looking for - i don't want it to be an issue for the patient. i don't want to make them feel uncomfortable or think that i would give them substandard care if we did not see eye to eye.

however, it really irks me when people smart off to others (let's save your poop) and it accomplishes nothing other than hurting someone else (and what if they were sincere in their motives??). i know it is one thing to joke and blow off steam here on the board to your peers. believe me, i did inherit a healthy dose of sarcasm, but in all seriousness, i have heard this type of junk from nurses (and other department employees) spoken to patients and to employees in the hospital who work in other departments.... and i hate it. i guess you could call it a pet peeve.

and, i have had patients ask about my personal (sex) life :angryfire - you would be supprised (well, maybe not) at how bold they are! ... but i don't discuss that either.

i guess stevie was right about having the right to ask people to not curse. as a mom of a 7 yr old girl, i occasionally have to ask others to please consider their choice of words in public places. often the offensive people are not aware that their language is a big deal because that is their norm. if i politely ask them to be more aware of their language, they are usually ok with my request. if they are beligerant and act like an a$$, we leave. i cannot control their freedom of speech. my point is, while they may have to right to engage in a behaviour, i also have the right to refuse to (actively or passively) participate in it.

all in all, i really like the one reply "for what purpose do you desire this information". it tells the patient (or door knocker -- haa), "look, this is really none of your business", but it does so in a nice way....and it can segway into a different subject, like, say for example, "your doctor has ordered a test what will check your kidney function, so i need you to save your pee for the next 24 hours" ... see, i do have a little streak of funny :rotfl:

lifelongstudent

joyful nurse · Apr 7, 2005

Interesting discussion. I've done ICU nursing for over 25 years in Texas and South Carolina, and I've never been asked by a patient "are you saved?" I did become a Christian in my mid-twenties, after having been an agnostic. Before my conversion, I also was very easily offended by personal questions about my religious beliefs. I have to agree with some of the writers' perceptions that oftentimes born-again Christians come across as smug and/or judgemental. A great way to turn people off.

porterwoman · Apr 7, 2005

all that being said, i don't mind talking about my beliefs, in general. i do mind intolerance. very few people know what uu's are, what we believe in, etc., but i do mind when someone belittles my beliefs. i think living in thomas jefferson's backyard has contributed to my strong beliefs in freedom of religion (all religions) and the separation of church and state.

of course. you're a uu! the bolding above is mine.

i had a somewhat similar experience to yours with the secretary, but with a patient when i replied, "well, i go to the unitarian church when i'm not working or in school." i was trying the honesty tack, and i kind of hoped that the fact that i try to attend church would satisfy the patient and let me off the hook. it didn't work.

pt: well, how does christ fit into that church?

pw: umm (fiddling with iv pump) well that's sort of up to each individual to decide (pw desperately trying to cram those worms back into their can) umcanyourateyourpainonascaleofonetotenokaythanksi'llbebackinaminute...

i think his son turned out to be a wesleyan minister or something. eeeee.

danu, your summary of my op was right on, and the way this thread has evolved to include personal space and boundaries is great. keep it up, ya'll!

rebecca

porterwoman · Apr 7, 2005

Well, I'd reply with , "Am I saved?" and then look at my watch and say "uh, not yet." Then quickly change the subject with a great smile. :rotfl:

Oooh! Good un! Tee hee!

Not like I'd actually say that...I don't know, maybe I would...

Reborn · Apr 7, 2005

For most people it is just an offensive question.

Most people? Sorry, but how do you figure that? Isn't that your own opinion?

Why project what you think on "most people". Sorry, but I find that offensive.

And you know what else? This whole thread is pretty ridiculous. You all that have been posting may be all caught up in it, but coming here after days away and reading how a simple legitimate question about the best way to handle a question from a patient has wandered all into......well, whatever it is now, which is sad.

Does anyone really think that for a patient to ask you about your faith or lack there of is a violation of some "right" of yours???? I almost fell out of my chair at that.

You can believe in ugly pink monkeys if you think that will help you any, but when you are speaking with a patient(excuse while I be un-PC and yell):IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.....GET OVER IT

Calmly, professionally, and if you have a heart, kindly or sweetly tell them like a few on here with some sense have said, "I really should not share my feelings on this matter, I am here solely to help YOU, can I get your Pastor or a Chaplain, ?? etc...."

Puleeze...... :icon_roll

RainbowSkye · Apr 7, 2005

Reborn,

By your screen name I believe you're letting us all know that you are Christian, and proud of it. Maybe you could shed some light on this discussion. Why do you think that some Christians feel it is so important to ask if someone is saved? I've been concerned in the past that patients may ask because they don't feel comfortable having a non-Christian caring for them.

Thanks.