General industry/market question

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Do you think that our working conditions and wages are in part affected by nurses desperate for their first job and consequently perpetuating lower wages and inadequate staffing?

Can anything be done about it?

And what do you think about the P.T. Association continuing to up their education/degree availabililty. keeping themselves in demand and realistically/theoretically better negotiating position?

Sometimes the scenario can become a case of degree inflation, same conditions and still an employers market.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

I think it is multi faceted as already noted. There will always be supply and demand factors that are ebb and flow but in general there are things we can do to temper the climate. Because our industry is largely female I think we tend not to run our careers as a business. The Martyr Syndrome as noted by the Commuter is rampant. "If I don't do it who will?" OMG, really??? Nurses who are wiling to work for low wages and tolerate unsafe staffing ratios continue to shoot us all in the foot. I can't count the times I have heard someone say they work for XYZ major teaching hospital for horrible wages because "it looks great on my resume" which is laughable and they are reaping what they sow. The number of nursing schools popping up everywhere and the hokey lengths they go through to become and remain accredited is problematic. We aren't supportive of each other and continue to follow the Old Boys Club theory that discussing our rate of pay is tacky which helps ensure that new nurses don't know what a fair wage is and are willing to take whatever crumb is thrown their way.

Unions? Yeah I think it would be a step up.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I think the only way out of this, and it will take time, is to up the degree required/available and make getting through nursing school lengthier and more difficult. That's how it works for the therapies and they're not desperate for jobs nor worked like dogs.

We can't change what the employers pay or what nurses are willing to tolerate, and I don't think we can close existing accredited programs as long we still license 2 yr degrees, but we can try to produce tougher cream of the crop nurses, but less of them, who have higher professional expectations.

The glut of nurses has nothing to do with the fact that there are several entry paths into nursing.. The glut of nurses was deliberately created with the goal of reducing our compensation and power. The false "nurse shortage!" propaganda was the tool used to create the glut of nurses.

Certain people in nursing, like the ANA and like minded "nurse", have dramatically set back the BSN as entry to practice. Take the physical therapists for example. When the degree required to practice was implemented all those therapists who didn't have the new required degree were grandfathered in. There was no attempt to reduce them to "technical therapists", or push them into unemployment as has happened in nursing with the ADN. It seems obvious to me that many, many leaders in nursing are MUCH more interested in punishing those RNs who had the gall to practices with an associates degree, than in actually having BSN as entry to practice. Reading the ANA's White Paper on the subject will demonstrate what I am talking about.

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The glut of nurses has nothing to do with the fact that there are several entry paths into nursing.. The glut of nurses was deliberately created with the goal of reducing our compensation and power. The false "nurse shortage!" propaganda was the tool used to create the glut of nurses.

Certain people in nursing, like the ANA and like minded "nurse", have dramatically set back the BSN as entry to practice. Take the physical therapists for example. When the degree required to practice was implemented all those therapists who didn't have the new required degree were grandfathered in. There was no attempt to reduce them to "technical therapists", or push them into unemployment as has happened in nursing with the ADN. It seems obvious to me that many, many leaders in nursing are MUCH more interested in punishing those RNs who had the gall to practices with an associates degree, than in actually having BSN as entry to practice. Reading the ANA's White Paper on the subject will demonstrate what I am talking about.

I want to clarify that I was thinking grandfathering in all existing licensed nurses would be a given, which is why I think it would take time. There would have to be some other measures taken as well to bring about a change without taking half a century.

OTOH, if there weren't so many relatively quick ways to an RN license we wouldn't have a glut of new grads. The higher degree would naturally slow down the production.

And IMO, I'd speculate that a new nursing population holding masters are less likely to accept and tolerate being worked like dogs assigned 47 patients. Nor would they have to in a less glutted market.

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Without meaning to sound like an ogre, doesn't anyone want to say to these pre nursing students?, "Please don't apply to nursing school!"

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Without meaning to sound like an ogre, doesn't anyone want to say to these pre nursing students?, "Please don't apply to nursing school!"

What?!! Deny revenue to nursing school businesses? Never!!!

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I want to clarify that I was thinking grandfathering in all existing licensed nurses would be a given,

It certainly has not been a given. If it had been I firmly believe there would not have been so much opposition to BSN as entry to practice. I assume you have read the ANA White paper on BSN as entry?

OTOH, if there weren't so many relatively quick ways to an RN license we wouldn't have a glut of new grads. The higher degree would naturally slow down the production.

The same can be said for all the 12 month "shake and bake" BSN programs that have popped up all over the country, as well as the direct entry masters programs. We have had many ADN programs for decades, but the glut of nurses is new, as are the ABSN and DEM.

And IMO, I'd speculate that a new nursing population holding masters are less likely to accept and tolerate being worked like dogs assigned 47 patients. Nor would they have to in a less glutted market

It's already highly questionable if it is worth it to spend tens of thousands on a college degree in nursing only to make less than $20/hour. What person in their right mind will spend the money and time to get a masters degree only to make less than $20/hour.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Without meaning to sound like an ogre, doesn't anyone want to say to these pre nursing students?, "Please don't apply to nursing school!"

I don't want to tell the not apply but I do want them to get a good look at what they are getting into.

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