Gay labeling, is it just plain mean? Or sexual harrassment?

Nurses Men

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recently i was approaching another nurse (who happens to be effeminate and thought to be gay, but who cares really?) to give report and when beginning report was dumbfounded when a nurse in the hallway said to another nurse: "ooo! a gay nurse giving report to another gay nurse!" now, i felt hurt. i am not your typical bakersfield area macho dude, but what gives her the right to put me into any box. i am affraid to bring this to management or possibly write her up for sexual harrassment. i told my wife that i am even fearful of having conversations with men that appear flamboyantly gay for being categorized; not that i am scared of turning gay. sometimes i feel that it might be easier in the field to be gay and kind than to be heterosexual and kind. i just hate this crap. really quite irritating to have your coworker who you think is a smart nurse make such a cruel judgement call on her coworker. anyway, your thoughts on this topic...

That's the thing, these people weren't just having an opinion, they were acting like immature high schoolers. They were making a totally presumptuous comment about the sexual preferences of two colleages in the hallway in an idiotic fashion. It would be the same as saying "Oh, look, two Jewish nurses giving report to each other!" or " Oh, two Racists giving report to one another!", or "Oh look, two Born Againers reporting off to each other!". I mean, what a totally stupid and loudmouthed thing to say. Then, it turns out the they are wrong, the nurses aren't Jewish, Racist, or Born Again Christians, which makes the comment even more ridiculous.

I agree whole heartily that this female was acting immaturely. This entire situation is sophomoric in my opinion. Sexuality should not be discussed in a professional environment... i mean unless you want to engage in it with someone you know very well and your not around others.... personally I think society is slipping back into the Victorian ages when it comes to sexuality.

Scarey and ironically the gal that stated, "oooooh, a gay nurse givning report to another gay nurse!!" uses the term,"That's so gay!" to describe an imperfect action or an idiotic thought pattern...I also asked her for clarification on this! And maybe by this questioning of her logic she came to the conclusion that I was gay. Oh well, "consider the source" as my wife always states is the best thing that I can do.

Thank you, Roy...I needed grounding for why I really am in this field of nursing!

Yeah... she must be like... what... 12? I mean... I dunno. If I say something is stupid, does that mean I'm making fun of stupid people? as a gay man, I understand that there is a difference between the adjective gayand the pejorative gay and that they are really two separate meanings for the same word. I'm gay and when I'm with my friends at home or hanging out, you'll often hear me say, "That's so gay, ect. ect." and no... its not because I think that particular gay item is a potential date for myself... I just understand the context in which it was said.

Again, I reiterate, this entire situation is SOPHOMORIC, HS DRAMA.

Tell her to knock it off, if she doesn't, write her up if it makes you that upset. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to be upset, because you do... I'm just saying that you should ask yourself honestly what those reasons of being upset really are... maybe you should eve try being her friend, which IMHO she is really trying to do.

You can consider the source... or learn about the source. Ask her why she keeps saying these things around you. If she insists that you're gay then tell her to back off. If its because thats just who she is, maybe theres something there that your not seeing.... I dunno... this thread has gotten me all flustered. Whatever happens, I wish for the best to the two of you.

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Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
So if I'm gay, my character is defamed?... watch yourself.

I've had friends "accuse" me of being a man, and of being white. I'm not ashamed of being a white man, but using either as a perjorative could have been an insult, had it not clearly been playful joking. For that matter, I've been told by a gay friend, "you're so-o-o straight." Again, he didn't seriously mean being straight was a bad thing, and we were on good enough terms to kid around.

I don't see any way to interpret the OP's incident as a playful dig between friends. The apparent intent was to verbally "emasculate," and really, it seems to me that ought to be as offensive to gays as to straights.

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I've had friends "accuse" me of being a man, and of being white. I'm not ashamed of being a white man, but using either as a perjorative could have been an insult, had it not clearly been playful joking. For that matter, I've been told by a gay friend, "you're so-o-o straight." Again, he didn't seriously mean being straight was a bad thing, and we were on good enough terms to kid around.

I don't see any way to interpret the OP's incident as a playful dig between friends. The apparent intent was to verbally "emasculate," and really, it seems to me that ought to be as offensive to gays as to straights.

Ever been called a "breeder"? lol That's one of them that I refuse to use... its... just so... weird sounding.

But yeah... I'm just not sure if she actually thought he was gay or not... so yeah. I mean if she knew he was straight before hand and then said something like that, it would have made for a hostile work environment which it evidently did anyway.... but I'm just not sure what her actual intent was. Thats why I think, from a pacifistic point of view, OP should try to get the story out of her... in a non threatening way. Everyone is there to help the patients quality of life, whether gay straight or whatever. Petty business like this does not belong in any professional environment.

I mean... I can see both sides of the issue and both have very valid points... but I agree with everyone here that says he should just talk to her and get the story straight and then tell her that he's happily married... to a female, and personally he doesn't like those kinda of comments. I don't think it should go as far as that. If she become indignant about it, which I highly doubt, they yeah shes being mean and you should report her. I just think that she has some maturity issues to deal with in a professional environment... I just think it's sad, that if it wasn't for this the two of them probably have been good colleagues.

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I've had friends "accuse" me of being a man, and of being white. I'm not ashamed of being a white man, but using either as a perjorative could have been an insult, had it not clearly been playful joking. For that matter, I've been told by a gay friend, "you're so-o-o straight." Again, he didn't seriously mean being straight was a bad thing, and we were on good enough terms to kid around.

I don't see any way to interpret the OP's incident as a playful dig between friends. The apparent intent was to verbally "emasculate," and really, it seems to me that ought to be as offensive to gays as to straights.

Also, you know these people pretty well I assume. I would not go up to you and say, "yo, white man, what's up my homey g-slice?" (which happens to be an inside joke between me and another friend of mine from college... fun times...

But I said something about racial things in another post earlier. I want to clarify, hateful bigoted words are a lot different from gay, which to the surprise of many is a term that I am proud to call myself. Its a term to me that means that I really don't give a rats a** about what other people think about my love life or who I'm attracted to. That is not for them to decide. To me it means that I have acknowledge a part of myself that was not a "choice" and that I accepted myself for who I am whole heartedly.... so it's kind of distressing to me when I see other people consider it an insult... but for that reason, I can safely say that I'm biased in the matter.

Also I would like to add that I do not go around claiming to the tops of the hills that I'm gay, anymore than the "breeders" (sorry coudln't resist) go around and walk up to people and when they say hi it goes like: "Hi my name is Joe Smith, I'm a heterosexual, are you also a heterosexual? If so would you like to go out on a date some time?"

A lot about sexuality is discreet and the lines have been blurred beyond recognition and we use stereotypes to make sense of it all... but we worry about it too much as a society. Keep it discreet, I agree, but don't have such strong emotions attached to it. If you are a man, and you know it and your straight and you know it, why does someone else's comment make you question that? I'm so very torn on this issue.

Professionally, in a professional environment, this kind of sociological crisis should never have occurred... but maybe it's going toward something bigger that we are missing... I think the times are changing.. for better or worse, I don't know.

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Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).

It's kind of a complicated issue. I believe the only meaningful definition of a man is an adult male human, and of those three traits, "adult" and "human" are the more important ones. Well, I suppose, technically, to be an adult could just mean having lived to the age of sexual maturity, and to be a human is simply to be a member of our species, but I tend to think of adulthood as having attained at least a degree of overall maturity, so that, at least, is an accomplishment. Being a male--and I suppose, strictly speaking, being human--is not an accomplishment, it's an accident of birth. In my view, it has been a happy accident--I enjoy being a guy--but it isn't something to brag about, and it really has nothing to do with sexuality. A gay man is just as adult, male, and human as any other.

Still, the implication that a guy who doesn't watch sports is not a real man is patently offensive. That's a statement that overtly demeans ones manhood. Similarly, some who call another "gay" clearly mean it to say one is less than manly. I find that implication offensive, but it is difficult to take offense without appearing to endorse the idea that gays are less than manly. Also, it frustrates me to no end that punching them in the nose is not a mature or appropriate answer.

Geez. Being a boy didn't require nearly this much thought.

P.S. I am not a breeder. My cats are my children.

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P.S. I am not a breeder. My cats are my children.

:D

lol, Yeah, I was only joking with that. I don't ever even use that word. I was really just trying to make a point. I agree with everything you just said. Being Politically Correct is frustrating and I'd rather not walk eggshells my entire life and just say what I damn well please...but I don't.

P.S. I'm a single parents as well, two cats two dogs...

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Specializes in Skilled Nursing.

It bothers me how society has nasty stereotypes..its pathetic. Gee, if a woman gets turned down by a man..at times you hear..Oh hes gay then, or if a man isnt into sports..he must be gay. If a woman has short hair..oh shes a butch.

Honestly, I know a lot of gay people in the field..people need to get over it, and mind their own business. So what if someone is gay?? WHo cares? Im straight! Who cares? I also think the previous post of the female saying oh a gay giving another gay report..is ignorant.

I dont like societys assumption oh gee..hes a nurse he must be gay. As a female Nurse I hear the stupid man fantasy of "Gee will you give me a spongebath? in a short Nurse outfit?" ..after they stop laughing like a dork...I tell them "No but Ill stick a cath in you..hows that for your little fantasy?" I emphasize little too ;)

If I was a man, and a someone came up to me and assumed I was gay..and asked..I would tell them " No I am not, but if I was do you have a problem with that?" I would call them out of the carpet.

I dont care if someone is gay, straight, black, white, latino..to me we are the same. We all bleed red..wish a lot more people saw it that way in todays society its sad.

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Specializes in Occ Health; Med/Surg; ICU.

It is cruel. It is sexual harassment. It is also called bullying, or lateral violence, or horizontal violence, which is common to nursing, although usually minimized. The nature of the comment with the "oooo" connotes ridicule, the content is sexual. I believe that it is actionable in most states as sexual harassment. However, almost always, unless the harassment is immediate and major (such as fondling someone) there is an element that must be brought into play. The harasser must be notified (made aware) that comments were perceived as hurtful, embarrassing, painful, ect. So the rule, with verbal comments tends to be that the harasser must be notified, then if it occurs again it becomes harassment. Further, with this sort of harassment there must be harm. The harm can be embarrassment, which can be significant, for instance if you had a history of anxiety/panic attacks, and this caused you to quit. Or if, let's say, you had been sexually abused and this restimulated anxiety or depression. So, you see, you need to assess the level of assault. If you asked ten workers in your unit: "she seem to be telling everyone that I'm gay, when I'm not, and all of them respond with: 'Oh she does that with all the male nurses,' " then it's not defamation because nobody believes her (though it can still be sexual harassment). What I'd suggest is telling the person in private (or better yet, with a friend that can overhear) that it was hurtful and embarrassing, and simply not true. Then I would verbally notify, or in writing, if you wish, to your immediate supervisor. "Writing someone up," formally may be dangerous. This person is clearly passive aggressive and a bully (read "Odd Girl Out" to understand why--required reading for all nurses that are male, in my opinion). The problem in nursing with these bullies is that they work within a system that prefers to ignore them. So she may retaliate, and bet your bottom dollar, the retaliation will be in a passive aggressive manner. So you call her out when all of a sudden you can't find materials that you need on the shift because she's hidden them, or all of a sudden you see four nurses glancing at you, and scowling, or chuckling and she happens to be there talking to them. What you will hear usually is: "Oh no... we were talking about...we'd never do THAT.... Lateral violence is huge in nursing. Around 2002, in a journal entitled (I think) Nursing Education there was an article on new grads going to major Boston hospitals in fast track positions. Depending on which hospital, 40-70 out of every hundred nurses hired quit within one year. The reason: Perception of bullying. One bit of solace might be that with this person, it's not that you're male, she probably bullies anyone, male or female. And whatever you do--do not attempt to retaliate verbally for instance calling her a lesbian. I know of a case (hearsay told to me by a female co-worker) in Woman and Infants Hospital (RI) many years ago where a small group of female nurses "joked" with a guy--using innuendo and sexually graphic wording. So he joked back--and in time, the axe fell--and he was standing there saying: "but...but...." But his butt was heading out the door--never to return. In my friend's POV he was set-up--the power of passive aggressive bullying in action. Males especially cannot engage in innuendo, or joking with sexual content, regardless of how often it occurs around him with woman to women conversation. (My opinion) To do so is risky. See bullyonline doot org for some good info on workplace bullying.... and good luck

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Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
:D

P.S. I'm a single parents as well, two cats two dogs...

Blended families can be challenging, but fun.

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It bothers me how society has nasty stereotypes..its pathetic. Gee, if a woman gets turned down by a man..at times you hear..Oh hes gay then, or if a man isnt into sports..he must be gay. If a woman has short hair..oh shes a butch.

Honestly, I know a lot of gay people in the field..people need to get over it, and mind their own business. So what if someone is gay?? WHo cares? Im straight! Who cares? I also think the previous post of the female saying oh a gay giving another gay report..is ignorant.

I dont like societys assumption oh gee..hes a nurse he must be gay. As a female Nurse I hear the stupid man fantasy of "Gee will you give me a spongebath? in a short Nurse outfit?" ..after they stop laughing like a dork...I tell them "No but Ill stick a cath in you..hows that for your little fantasy?" I emphasize little too ;)

If I was a man, and a someone came up to me and assumed I was gay..and asked..I would tell them " No I am not, but if I was do you have a problem with that?" I would call them out of the carpet.

I dont care if someone is gay, straight, black, white, latino..to me we are the same. We all bleed red..wish a lot more people saw it that way in todays society its sad.

:yelclap: THANK YOU!!!

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So the rule with verbal comments tends to be that the harasser must be notified, then if it occurs again it becomes harassment. Further, with this sort of harassment there must be harm. The harm can be embarrassment, which can be significant, for instance if you had a history of anxiety/panic attacks, and this caused you to quit. Or if, let's say, you had been sexually abused and this restimulated anxiety or depression. So, you see, you need to assess the level of assault. If you asked ten workers in your unit: "she seem to be telling everyone that I'm gay, when I'm not, and all of them respond with: 'Oh she does that with all the male nurses,' " then it's not defamation because nobody believes her (though it can still be sexual harassment). [/quote']

This I agree with. But I always wonder about the defamation of character... I mean... can I go after someone who accuses me to be straight behind my back and people actually believe them? Now your first reaction to that question (honest first reaction) will tell you right there if there is a double standard or not.

:D I have to admit though, when I saw your user name I was kind of worried. I have had people tell me that in reference to other gay people I know. (Like I said, unless I think it's your business to know, I don't go around and tell people my business... and with the anonymity of the internet, you would never be able to tell me from Adam any way.)

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"...According to the law, you aren't permitted "defame" someone by claiming without basis that they do or have done something generally considered repugnant or illegal...

...When does something "generally considered repugnant" stop being "repugnant," and how do you tell? Such social shifts have happened in the past with various accusations, but today we can witness it occurring with the question of homosexuality....

... The question remains, however, at what point the legal system will take the necessary steps to remove homosexuality as something which qualifies as "defamation per se" and make it "defamation per quod" (meaning you have to prove actual damages). If the system moves too quickly, then people falsely accused of homosexuality will suffer for it; if the system moves too slowly, then people can be found guilty of defamation when no defamation really occurred...."

-Homosexuality and Libel

"In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual..."

-[wiki]Defamation of character[/wiki]

EDIT: This is not to say, however, that it's not sexual harassment if she continues to say these things after she has been told to stop.

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