Gay labeling, is it just plain mean? Or sexual harrassment?

Nurses Men

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recently i was approaching another nurse (who happens to be effeminate and thought to be gay, but who cares really?) to give report and when beginning report was dumbfounded when a nurse in the hallway said to another nurse: "ooo! a gay nurse giving report to another gay nurse!" now, i felt hurt. i am not your typical bakersfield area macho dude, but what gives her the right to put me into any box. i am affraid to bring this to management or possibly write her up for sexual harrassment. i told my wife that i am even fearful of having conversations with men that appear flamboyantly gay for being categorized; not that i am scared of turning gay. sometimes i feel that it might be easier in the field to be gay and kind than to be heterosexual and kind. i just hate this crap. really quite irritating to have your coworker who you think is a smart nurse make such a cruel judgement call on her coworker. anyway, your thoughts on this topic...

What they said about you sounds like unequivocal sexual harassment.

Imagine how quick you would be called in to human resources if you looked at two short haired nurses and said "We sure don't have to worry about any flooding up here... with those two dykes on the floor..."

HOWEVER...

When a man makes the choice to dress, act, speak, and carry himself as an over-the-top effeminate man, then, in my humble opinion, that man loses the moral authority to claim that other people are labeling him as gay.

He loses the authority because, by doing those things, he has labeled himself. It doesn't mean that he is gay and it wouldn't make any difference if he is or not... but when you show up to work and dress, speak, act, and carry yourself like you're gay, you can't very well come back the next day and complain that people are treating you like you're gay.

Bottom line: you choose the manner in which people see you with both your appearance and your actions. Choose wisely.

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Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
What they said about you sounds like unequivocal sexual harassment.

Imagine how quick you would be called in to human resources if you looked at two short haired nurses and said "We sure don't have to worry about any flooding up here... with those two dykes on the floor..."

HOWEVER...

When a man makes the choice to dress, act, speak, and carry himself as an over-the-top effeminate man, then, in my humble opinion, that man loses the moral authority to claim that other people are labeling him as gay.

He loses the authority because, by doing those things, he has labeled himself. It doesn't mean that he is gay and it wouldn't make any difference if he is or not... but when you show up to work and dress, speak, act, and carry yourself like you're gay, you can't very well come back the next day and complain that people are treating you like you're gay.

Bottom line: you choose the manner in which people see you with both your appearance and your actions. Choose wisely.

I don't want to be coy and suggest I don't know what someone means about dressing, speaking, acting, and carrying oneself as if one is gay. I have known a few gay men I believe could be described as flamboyantly gay. Typically, I don't think they would particularly object to being perceived as gay, (or flamboyant) although I'm sure many would object to that being used as a basis for discrimination or abuse.

Still, just as it's true that not all gay men fit some stereotype, it's just as true that not all men who are soft-spoken, or gentle, or sensitive, or nurses, are gay. A burly linebacker who likes to have sex with men is gay. A frail, sallow poet who likes to have sex with women is straight. One should not be expected to project whatever image others think is appropriate or otherwise prove one's sexuality--it's really nobody's business. That's the bottom line, in my book. I suppose the ignorant nurse who made the remark about the OP is entitled to her opinion, but she isn't entitled to express that opinion publicly in the workplace.

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One should not be expected to project whatever image others think is appropriate or otherwise prove one's sexuality--it's really nobody's business. That's the bottom line, in my book.

I couldn't agree more. One should not be expected to... but when that person does project a particular image, they have to understand that they alone are accountable for that image.

If a very calm, mild-mannered, understanding, and compassionate man gets a swastika tattoo on the visible part of his lower arm, he doesn't have much credibility when he looks around and cries "Why does everyone always think I'm some kind of nazi" now, does he?

Likewise, when a man frosts his hair, paints his nails, chooses to speak with an over-the-top lisp, and wears large-sized scrubs on an XL-sized body, he has equally as little credibility when he looks around and cries about why people question his sexuality. Whether or not he is an emotional poet, a burly linebacker, or prefers the company of men or women is irrelevant. He alone remains accountable for the image he projects to other people; it's lesson #1 in professionalism.

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I think that was very inappropriate. I think sometimes you have to be firm in an assertive way upfront when situations like that occur. Some nurses tend to be very ignorant unfortunately. I had a situation similar to that, being that I am gay, I scolded her in front of everyone so that the message of ZERO tolerance was in my field. Things like that is a serious incident and should not be tolerated at all. And Yes, this nurse was embarrassed by her inconsiderate and ignorant comment and from then on no nurses would even dare go there with me again.

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What they said about you sounds like unequivocal sexual harassment.

Imagine how quick you would be called in to human resources if you looked at two short haired nurses and said "We sure don't have to worry about any flooding up here... with those two dykes on the floor..."

HOWEVER...

When a man makes the choice to dress, act, speak, and carry himself as an over-the-top effeminate man, then, in my humble opinion, that man loses the moral authority to claim that other people are labeling him as gay.

He loses the authority because, by doing those things, he has labeled himself. It doesn't mean that he is gay and it wouldn't make any difference if he is or not... but when you show up to work and dress, speak, act, and carry yourself like you're gay, you can't very well come back the next day and complain that people are treating you like you're gay.

Bottom line: you choose the manner in which people see you with both your appearance and your actions. Choose wisely.

We have no control over how others percieve us. They either see us as we are, or as they want to see us, and no amount of talking or acting differently will change how someone feels about you, if someone has already formed their opinions. I shouldn't have to tell an adult, as they should already know, how to treat another HUMAN BEING, whether it be a feminine male, or a masculine female. What ever happened to mutual respect?

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Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
I couldn't agree more. One should not be expected to... but when that person does project a particular image, they have to understand that they alone are accountable for that image.

If a very calm, mild-mannered, understanding, and compassionate man gets a swastika tattoo on the visible part of his lower arm, he doesn't have much credibility when he looks around and cries "Why does everyone always think I'm some kind of nazi" now, does he?

Likewise, when a man frosts his hair, paints his nails, chooses to speak with an over-the-top lisp, and wears large-sized scrubs on an XL-sized body, he has equally as little credibility when he looks around and cries about why people question his sexuality. Whether or not he is an emotional poet, a burly linebacker, or prefers the company of men or women is irrelevant. He alone remains accountable for the image he projects to other people; it's lesson #1 in professionalism.

I think we may be arguing different points. Bear in mind that while I think I happen to live in one of the more cosmopolitan parts of WV, it's still a long way from San Francisco. So, in my (admittedly limited) experience, gay men I've been acquainted with whose appearance and/or behavior was a bit "out there" (at least by local standards) were out, and had no objection to being perceived as gay. Frankly, I'm not really all that comfortable around guys who are flamboyantly gay, or too enthusiasticly overt in their heterosexuality (i.e. "wild and crazy guys" who aren't kidding). Not that I particularly object if someone wants to be "over-the-top." It's a big world, and not everyone in it has to be my best friend.

But I read the OP's post as quite a different situation. He did describe the guy he was in report with as "effeminate" (whatever that means), but the only "gay" thing he revealed about himself was that he was a nurse--and I would surely hope that most of us on this forum would agree that being a nurse says nothing about one's sexuality. And while I don't in any way want to endorse the idea that being gay makes one less than a man, I do recognize that that typically is the view of those bigots who think if you aren't wearing a wife-beater t-shirt and a Harley tatoo, you must be gay.

Personally, I enjoy watching football, now and then, but too much of it begins to bore me. I do like the times when they cut to the cheerleaders, except when there's a crucial play in a good game going on while they do it. I haven't been to a ballet in years, but I like ballet. Good music and lithe young women wearing not too many extra clothes--what's not to like? (Well, I have on occassion wondered where the guys got the cojones to go onstage in those tights, but it was obvious--moreso than I was really entirely comfortable with--that they did have them.)

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Looks to me that it might be a compliment. Of course I am a gay male nurse and plan to stay that way....

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I hope that the folks who are expressing some negativity about "perceived gayness and actions" will remember that for many years it took a man who was confident in his maleness to question traditional gender roles in nursing. He made the move into nursing at a time when the motivations might have been purely the desire to help others without much financial reward. Many of those men WERE gay, and some of them acted in a different way than the status quo. Where do you think the stereotype came from? It is due to their original boldness to stand up to much criticism that men with more mainstream orientation are now freely entering a professional that used to be almost entirely female. It is inappropriate to carry homophobia into nursing and expect some who are acting naturally, and being themselves, to try to "butch it up". The purpose of our profession is to provide the best care we can. Stop worrying about perceived gayness in yourself and others. Focus on the quality of your nursing, and if you feel the need, police your own mannerisms and dress. If you are confident in who YOU are then your shouldn't be concerned about the sexuality of a co-worker. And yes, I am Gay and for me it has been less of a challenge facing the World because I have a football players build and have always been perceived in a positive fashion. It took me many years to stop worrying that a particular phrase or action would "out me". Holding back and trying to make sure you act differently than what is natural for you takes a lot of effort. In saying that, I never forget the courage it takes to face the world when your natural physicality or actions make you a target for homophobia and discrimination. Thanks for being strong enough to be true to yourself. :bow:

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forgive me for not reading all the previous posts, since there are over 100.

I am a heterosexual male nurse and I feel like many people that see me figure that I must be gay because "i am doing a woman's job."

That is just a feeling i get, maybe because I have heard people say it about other male nurses.

It is wild to think that a woman can be a record producer or a architect and not be considered as gay, but as soon as a man pursues a nursing career, they are labelled.

I guess it is sort of like the woman firefighter or woman police officer, they very well may not be gay, but i bet many of the people that don't know them would label them as gay.

in summary, I don't care if you are gay or straight, it doesn't bother me unless you flaunt it in my face. I can and have worked with homosexual men and women. I have no problem with it, that's a personal choice!

my 2 cents

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Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care, Public Health.

Being gentle is different than being effeminate. There are four guys in my class of 90, and even though 2 of them are armed services guys (1 former marine who still looks like a marine and a navy guy) I would still consider all of them to be very gentle men - softer spoken, calm, not afraid to smile. The only one of the guys who I wouldnt have work on me if I needed it it isnt because hes a guy, its because he is REALLY young and kinda immature - which follows, about a quarter of the women in my class I feel the same way about. They got this far and will be good competent nurses eventually, but who I do and do not trust in my class is very much on an individual basis.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Not all gay men are 'gentle'. Some gay men are aggressive and domineering, so assuming a man is gay because he is gentle is not logical.

It's better not to stereotype in the first place, there's too many variations of human behavior to make that an accurate way to evaluate people.

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Specializes in Medical Assisting, Phlebotomy.
Not all gay men are 'gentle'. Some gay men are aggressive and domineering, so assuming a man is gay because he is gentle is not logical.

It's better not to stereotype in the first place, there's too many variations of human behavior to make that an accurate way to evaluate people.

Absolutely ! In fact, if not already, it should be policy to leave silly neurotic behaviour such as stereotyping AT HOME. It has no place on the job, especially when, as luck might have it, the next patient one treats just might be a gay person. We never know !

Paul

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