Foreign nurses are taking/replacing nurses here in the USA?

caliotter3 · Feb 9, 2009

I once read a very educated article or section in a text about the professionalism required in nursing and a comparision of nursing to the other professions. Basically, it said that the nursing profession, if appropriately compensated for suggested education, experience level, and job expectations, would be bringing nurses wages that more closely approached those of the other professions, i.e. nurses with BSNs would not be getting jobs paying $18 or $21 an hour to start. Unfortunately, nursing does not always garner the higher wages, with some exceptions. Is this a direct result of importing nurses from other countries? The only way to know this, is to get an affirmative answer to a question posed to employers. I seriously doubt that an employer would tell you that they start their RNs at $24 and change, instead of $52, because the majority of their new hires during the past 20 years has been from those not born in the US. You can draw whatever conclusions you find reasonable from your anecdotal observations. It most likely does affect the wage you are offered, provided you are offered a job at all. Good luck in your job hunt.

Silverdragon102, BSN · Feb 9, 2009

Retrogression has been ongoing since Oct 2006 and it currently is very hard to bring in foreign trained nurses, please take the time to read the International forum where much has been written on this. Majority of nurse come over on a green card so the employer has to pay the same as a USC/resident and it is checked that they are doing so.

From my understanding at the moment many nurses especially new grads are struggling to find work in many states and have seen many International nurse students in NY have to move states just to find a hospital to petition for GC and even work on OPT.

jjjoy, LPN · Feb 9, 2009

It's true that there's been a halt to "importing" foreign nurses to the US, so the complaint you're hearing is a little out of date.

Just to clarify, though, the complaint that foreign nurses bring wages down is not that they are paid less than their native-trained counterparts. The problem is when facilities look to foreign nurses to fill their positions instead of increasing the pay and/or improving the working conditions in order to recruit and retain local nurses.

I can see, though, that to provide the wages and working conditions (low nurse to patient ratios) needed to attract and keep local nurses could mean that a facility can't stay profitable or that individuals and insurances can't or won't afford the higher costs.

shodobe · Feb 9, 2009

It still seems the majority of new hires are from foreign born and trained nurses. I work with quite a few from the Phillipines and most are very competent. It is disheartening when you hear them talk about only going to school in the Phillipines to come to the US to work. Far better pay and benes. I still feel they are taking away the majority of jobs available to new grads. Unless they have a permanent resident card for work, their green card should only be temp. This might sound a bit sour on my part but when it comes to new hires ALL US trained grads should be given a preference over foreign born and trained nurses dispite their experience.

To answer the above OP, I am not outdated I just seem to see what is happening. Maybe it is only in certain states, but Calif seems to still have quite a number of foreign nurses.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 9, 2009

As Silverdragon states: very few foreign-trained nurses are now allowed in. However, it does seem that many flock to Ca as it is easy to get a flight back to the PI and the weather is similar. I live in central IL and we have no foreign-trained nurses of any nationality.

2bNurseguru · Feb 9, 2009

I think blaming foreign trained nurses for low wages is just unreasoble. Thousands of foreign trained OTs, PTs and MDs are hired every year, yet their salaries continue to climb compared to nursing. So pointing fingers at the wrong issue is not going to help. The problem is that nursing is still viewed as a helping career and people can go to school for as little as 2 years and become nurses. Nurses get to take orders from doctors but cannot authorize a treatment plan. So the pay can never be competitive. People in other health profesions moslty need a Masters (like OT) or Phd (Like PT) to be licensed. They can also recommend treatment plans so they are not under doctor's orders. So raising the level of education required to become RN may help.

shodobe · Feb 9, 2009

My PACU is staffed mainly with nurses from the island. It seems there are so many in my hospital. I know that if you state too much some people will think you are a bit, not sure what word I am looking for. It has nothing to do with that. I am, I guess, a Nationalist who believes jobs for Americans, no exceptions. I am also tired of the threads that continue to cry for jobs. The jobs are there in many parts of the country but unavailable due to many foreign nurses overstaying their time. I personally feel that ALL working visas should be revoked and ALL foreign nurses re-apply stating their need to continue working here.. Hard results for hard times.

shodobe · Feb 9, 2009

I think blaming foreign trained nurses for low wages is just unreasoble. Thousands of foreign trained OTs, PTs and MDs are hired every year, yet their salaries continue to climb compared to nursing. So pointing fingers at the wrong issue is not going to help. The problem is that nursing is still viewed as a helping career and people can go to school for as little as 2 years and become nurses. Nurses get to take orders from doctors but cannot authorize a treatment plan. So the pay can never be competitive. People in other health profesions moslty need a Masters (like OT) or Phd (Like PT) to be licensed. They can also recommend treatment plans so they are not under doctor's orders. So raising the level of education required to become RN may help.

No, wages has nothing to do with it. They are taking jobs away from US trained nurses. Please don't start a rant on higher education(BSN vs ADN) because that is not an issue.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 9, 2009

While a unique perspective Shodobe, what do we do where there are NO foreign-trained nurses? The foreign-trained nurses are few and far between in more rural areas. So, while your solution might solve the problem in Ca (and I sincerely doubt that it would), it would not work in the rest of the US.

ZooMommyRN, ADN, RN · Feb 9, 2009

Our facility recently lost one of the most competent, caring, compassionate, all around nurse I would trust my child to because of this new "no more foreigeners" deal, regardless of the fact that his RN in the Ukraine translated to LPN here, he worked his tail off, paid double tuition and became an RN thru the local CC bridge program, he lived according to our laws and paid his taxes just like the rest of us, yet they wouldn't renew his GC, even tho e'd started classes and the process to become a legal US citizen, he had to fly back to the Ukraine and now our hospital's legal team is working thru the red tape to re-sponsor him and bring him back, which will set back his goal of becoming a true citizen, it wa a great loss to our staff and patients when he left

Atheos · Feb 9, 2009

So raising the level of education required to become RN may help.

That's a tired argument.

MANY professions require higher levels of education for entry into the field. MANY of them are paid pittances.

The only real issue is the fact that a fractured workforce never wins the pay war. The only way people can drive up prices is to demand it together as one or change the profession in such a manner that allows the practitioner to exert a large amount of control. Doctors, lawyers and other high paid professionals have had this power. Nurses haven't. Nor are nurses united. Until one or the other changes the prospects of improved pay are dismal to say the least.

To think it's because of foreign nurses is also a bit off. I am sure that the employers would like us to think that so that we spend time fighting each other and not them.