Forced Flu Shots

Nurses Activism

Published

Georgetown Hospital in DC has forced flu shots. I am a travel nurse and have went through signing my contract and submitting my paperwork just to find out that if I don't have a flu shot I can't go to the facility. Normally I would say- ok, no big deal I'll get the shot but, I am allergic to the shot and eggs. Despite that info and the offer to provide the facility a note from my doctor they continue to refuse to allow me to come to the facility. Is this not discrimination? How can they do this and get away with it? Please help!

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Even those with an allergy to egg would find a way to get themselves vaccinated, if there was a upclose and personal risk to themselves and their loved ones.

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction - one where your throat swelled almost closed, had MDs talking about traching you, dropping blood pressure dropping, swelling up like a balloon.

I have, though not to flu vaccine. Real, honest allergies are not minor inconvenience or benign - they are often lifethreatening. There often is no "finding a way" to taking the med in many cases.

An acquaintance of mine worked at an ID research facility. She was literally barred from working in some of the labs, because they absolutely required vaccinations that she could not take. Ironically, she could work in the highest level biohazard, because the diseases handled there had no vaccines available for the diseases involved.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

from: vaccine

volume 26, issue 44, 16 october 2008, pages 5562-5566

the ethics of mandatory vaccination against influenza for healthcare workers

abstract

vaccination of health care workers (hcw) in long-term care results in indirect protection of patients who are at high-risk for influenza. the voluntary uptake of influenza vaccination among hcw is generally low. we argue that institutions caring for frail elderly have the responsibility to implement voluntary programmes for vaccination against influenza of hcw. when uptake falls short a mandatory programme may be justified. the main justification stems from the duty of care givers not to harm one's patient when one knows there is a significant risk of harm and the intervention to reduce this chance has a favourable balance of benefit over burdens and risks.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ED.

have taken a flu shot every year since 1982, 86 now that flu shot made me sick. worst vaccine ever ANTHRAX arm hurts for a week, it burns going in. yuck. Being the Medic for 1300 troops you kinda have to lead the way so the refusals are a minumum, we did let some people go in Korea for refusing the Anthrax vaccine.

man i miss the vaccine gun, nasty looking, but quick, course we had some fluid transfer issues so quit using it in the 80s, sorry i digress.....

so the nasal stuff isnt egg based interesting

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Utilization Management; Case Management.
Except in this case, it's more a medication allergy than a food allergy.

At any rate, OP, what about the intranasal vaccine. Are you able to take that?

Well an egg is food...so if she is allergic to eggs and there is an egg component in a medication...isnt she still allergic to egg, the food?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Utilization Management; Case Management.
From: Vaccine

Volume 26, Issue 44, 16 October 2008, Pages 5562-5566

The ethics of mandatory vaccination against influenza for healthcare workers

Well I have a duty to myself as well. If I think its harmful and do not want it it doesnt justify some abstract suggesting mandatory anything. Wear a mask, sure I'll do that! But even with the vaccine you can still get sick and be risk to others or some patients you care for could be a risk to you. So what, we dont care for patients who dont have the flu vaccine? No, we still do. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.

If we are mandating the use of masks by unvaccinated caregivers , why are we not checking the vaccination of ALL who come in contact with the patients . If we are saying unvaccinated nurses have to wear masks , then surely we must mask everybody whose vaccination staus is unknown ; Physicians , visitors , ancilliary stafand administrators , otherwise sure as heck it sounds like coercement / punishment of staff if they don't have the vaccine .

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Emergency Department.
Well I have a duty to myself as well. If I think its harmful and do not want it it doesnt justify some abstract suggesting mandatory anything.

Is there a source citation of the harm from flu vaccines? Nursing is also a science, so I would like to see a reputable science journal tell me:

1) the vaccine is very harmful (with exceptions to those with very specific allergies)

2) the harm from the vaccine is greater than the harm from influenza

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Utilization Management; Case Management.
Is there a source citation of the harm from flu vaccines? Nursing is also a science, so I would like to see a reputable science journal tell me:

1) the vaccine is very harmful (with exceptions to those with very specific allergies)

2) the harm from the vaccine is greater than the harm from influenza

Im not a scientist...I will be doing my own research someday but not on the flu vaccine...It may include how to get back to the days when there was no need or justification for innoculations.

Let me repost my opinion for you:

Well I have a duty to myself as well. If I think its harmful and do not want it it doesnt justify some abstract suggesting mandatory anything. Wear a mask, sure I'll do that! But even with the vaccine you can still get sick and be risk to others or some patients you care for could be a risk to you. So what, we dont care for patients who dont have the flu vaccine? No, we still do. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous!

So you go ahead and look to a magazine with information compiled by God knows who to make your decision because someone named it reputable. You have the freedom to do so and I still have the freedom to choose if I want it or not. I'm sure reputable journals rallied around the polio vaccine. I have an aunt living with the effects of it to this day. Yes these flu vaccines are not live but thats not the point. If I dont want it, I dont want it. If you want proof you find proof. It doesnt mean that my view is incorrect or I'm a better or worse HCP, nor does it mean you are better or worse. I believe in giving people choices regardless of what the popular opinion is because I dont want anyone making choices for me...especially a reputable journal. Curse me for liking the freedom to choose...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Emergency Department.
Im not a scientist...

Whoops, I think I misread your bio, then. What was the "S" in "BSN" for again?

I would never deny anyone their opinion. However, without evidence, it is going to be a pretty weak opinion in the minds of what is supposed to be evidenced based practice.

Illogical argument you are making is called the "false balance". It means that each viewpoint is of equal merit. I could say that I refuse to wash my hands between patients because the water supply is loaded with mind controlling government drugs. Is it healthy for my patients to give my viewpoint as much weight as yours that 15 seconds of washing (or alcohol based sanitizer) will prevent the spread of most diseases?

Personally, I would look to studies and evidence before going with an opinion that ignores "a magazine" like JAMA, Epidemiolgy, Nature, and Science.

Opinions are always welcome. But we are nurses. We use words like "science", "trust", "evidence", and "reason". It isn't always about us. It is about those that are in our care.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Utilization Management; Case Management.
Whoops, I think I misread your bio, then. What was the "S" in "BSN" for again?

I would never deny anyone their opinion. However, without evidence, it is going to be a pretty weak opinion in the minds of what is supposed to be evidenced based practice.

Illogical argument you are making is called the "false balance". It means that each viewpoint is of equal merit. I could say that I refuse to wash my hands between patients because the water supply is loaded with mind controlling government drugs. Is it healthy for my patients to give my viewpoint as much weight as yours that 15 seconds of washing (or alcohol based sanitizer) will prevent the spread of most diseases?

Personally, I would look to studies and evidence before going with an opinion that ignores "a magazine" like JAMA, Epidemiolgy, Nature, and Science.

Opinions are always welcome. But we are nurses. We use words like "science", "trust", "evidence", and "reason". It isn't always about us. It is about those that are in our care.

Yup...everything you just stated... :uhoh3: The fact that I dont want to be subjected to a FORCED vaccine does not equate to handwashing...but we both know that. And of course bc I wouldnt want the vaccine it means I haven't done any research...esp bc I dont make decisions soley on a magazine...and I guess I cant use any of those words and not want to be forced to do something when there are other options like wearing a mask instead...but I've already stated that so since I'm tired of repeating myself:yawn: and we agree that opinions are OK :up:Im just gonna end this coversation. Have a good one :)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER.
have taken a flu shot every year since 1982, 86 now that flu shot made me sick. worst vaccine ever ANTHRAX arm hurts for a week, it burns going in. yuck. Being the Medic for 1300 troops you kinda have to lead the way so the refusals are a minumum, we did let some people go in Korea for refusing the Anthrax vaccine.

man i miss the vaccine gun, nasty looking, but quick, course we had some fluid transfer issues so quit using it in the 80s, sorry i digress.....

so the nasal stuff isnt egg based interesting

actually the vaccine gun was still used in the early '90's...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.

The problem I have with forced flu shots , is why is it that managements choose to mandate one group have the flu shot ie. nurses , whilst doing nothing to check that anyone else who interacts with patients are compliant re. the flu shot .If we are trying to ensure a reduced risk of flu outbreaks then surely precautions should be applied to all and if you can't / wont have a flu shot , then if it is felt a mask should be worn it should be worn by all who cannot show compliance .

I always have my flu shot , but forthe above reasons I feel that mandating flu shots and then forcing JUSTnurses to wear masks if they do not comply is a punishment not a benign teaching method , which says more about the management methods of a facility than its infection control methods .

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment