There are massive amounts of information on vaccine efficacy and safety that are just a couple of clicks away. All reported incidents of possible vaccine complications are an open source of information in the United States.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
I'm sure 47 days on ECMO in the ICU becoming deconditioned and spending 6 months in rehab to learn how to walk, sit up and swallow are less of an inconvenience than reducing the potential to contract influenza by a simple vaccine. I'm sure it's less of an inconvenience to immune compromised patients to be exposed to influenza and risk lethal consequences because a staff or student found getting the vaccine a hassle.
Plus you previously posted that you thought you had a positive PPD. Vaccines are such a hassle.
It IS an incredible hassle! I'm severely allergic to gelatin and eggs (and about a zillion other things). It was originally thought that egg proteins in the vaccine were causing allergic reactions, but recent research suggests it's actually the gelatin. Either way, I can't have anything containing even trace amounts of either of those products.
I went through allergy testing when I was a toddler, in another (non-English-speaking) country, so it's not like I can easily access my records. And getting re-tested is insanely expensive and I can't afford it.
It IS an incredible hassle! I'm severely allergic to gelatin and eggs (and about a zillion other things). It was originally thought that egg proteins in the vaccine were causing allergic reactions, but recent research suggests it's actually the gelatin. Either way, I can't have anything containing even trace amounts of either of those products.
I went through allergy testing when I was a toddler, in another (non-English-speaking) country, so it's not like I can easily access my records. And getting re-tested is insanely expensive and I can't afford it.
Interesting I hadn't heard of gelatin allergy before, but it is protein so like any protein your body can develop an immune response to it.
I don't think about personal healthcare that much since I have been in the military, but allergy tests can be expensive even though insurance should cover the majority of the cost.
I think more people need to be educated about the flu shot.
My employer requires we get them, but also gives them to all employees for free.
It helps protect the patients as well as the employees. If I am around a patient with COPD or emphysema, I don't want to be responsible for them being on a vent and possibly dying because I didn't want to get vaccinated.
There are massive amounts of information on vaccine efficacy and safety that are just a couple of clicks away. All reported incidents of possible vaccine complications are an open source of information in the United States.
A Facebook friend linked an anti-vax site that used raw numbers from VERS to claim vaccines are dangerous. So, I went to VERS and looked at individual reports. Any report, no matter how ridiculous, must be included in VERS and made available to the public. Some "reactions" reported occurred 100 days or more after vaccination. There was one that was about a year post-vax.
In the business world that statement is known as "Plausible Deniability." The burden of proof is left on the vulnerable, less educated, and economically disadvantaged. I don't imagine that you've sat back and observed the social dynamics that go on in the scientific/medical community ....this site being a small example. (a small sociology project) ??
Anyhoo, not that I'm going argue all the "peer-reviewed" evidence that gets our country terrible rankings in the world healthcare report card.....but
I think the right to autonomy should never be seen as anything less than a fundamental human right. I understand the business narcissism that fuels the political ideology behind "privatization" and threatening ones livelihood willy nilly; but for a health professional who is a trained advocate for autonomy to others without so much as a vigorous debate on the merits for their own sake .....is nothing less than masochistic.
In the business world that statement is known as "Plausible Deniability." The burden of proof is left on the vulnerable, less educated, and economically disadvantaged. I don't imagine that you've sat back and observed the social dynamics that go on in the scientific/medical community ....this site being a small example. (a small sociology project) ??
Anyhoo, not that I'm going argue all the "peer-reviewed" evidence that gets our country terrible rankings in the world healthcare report card.....but
I think the right to autonomy should never be seen as anything less than a fundamental human right. I understand the business narcissism that fuels the political ideology behind "privatization" and threatening ones livelihood willy nilly; but for a health professional who is a trained advocate for autonomy to others without so much as a vigorous debate on the merits for their own sake .....is nothing less than masochistic.
In the science world, we say correlation does not imply causation. Nurses are, in fact, well-trained to account for psycho-social variables at play in our world & our patient's world. The Cochrane study footnotes say quite the opposite of what you stated. They are reporting that the studies saying the vaccine is NOT efficacious are biased. Read the disclaimer carefully; it does not support your opinion. Nurses ARE autonomous....to choose not to work at a facility the requires the flu vaccine. Patients should be autonomous...to not risk getting the flu from their nurse. If you think nurses are masochistic, what do you call people in the business world? I've taken 2 statistics courses & graduate-level research, & my perspective is that your application of business to nursing is off-base, to say the least.
In the business world that statement is known as "Plausible Deniability." The burden of proof is left on the vulnerable, less educated, and economically disadvantaged. I don't imagine that you've sat back and observed the social dynamics that go on in the scientific/medical community ....this site being a small example. (a small sociology project) ??
Anyhoo, not that I'm going argue all the "peer-reviewed" evidence that gets our country terrible rankings in the world healthcare report card.....but
I think the right to autonomy should never be seen as anything less than a fundamental human right. I understand the business narcissism that fuels the political ideology behind "privatization" and threatening ones livelihood willy nilly; but for a health professional who is a trained advocate for autonomy to others without so much as a vigorous debate on the merits for their own sake .....is nothing less than masochistic.
Well since, the business community utilizes peer-reviewed scientific evidence that often relies on mathematics it is highly unlikely that any educated business person would confuse causation, coincidence, and plausible deniability as like terms.
Yes, I have commented on the Cochrane review about flu vaccines before, and if you understand how Cochrane library judges scientific evidence then you would understand how they came about their conclusions.
The Cochrane library does not consider any study that is not a randomized control trial to be a high quality study. When you think about this that is probably the best criteria for lab studies, but that may not be always be the best way to judge human studies.
What you would have to do is to take two populations randomly assign them to treatment versus non-treatment groups i.e. give one a placebo of saline and then a treatment group would get the flu vaccine and see, among other things, what the mortality rates are between the two groups. So, unless you find the most unethical IRB in the world these type of studies are going to be rare when you already have a vaccine or medication that has already proven efficacious. What you will see in the literature is high-quality retrospective studies that look at two groups that have not been randomly assigned, but can be equated through statistical measurements. These are likely to be the only type of phase IV trials on most medications that you will see, especially when the endpoint is likely to be a higher mortality in the non-treatment group.
In other words I understand the Cochrane library results quite well, but I don't think you do.
Autonomy stops when beneficence and nonmaleficence has to be sacrificed to obtain autonomy. There is many judicial and other healthcare examples of this all the time when it comes to public health. Every U.S. citizen has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness but only when those rights don't expressly interfere with others same basic rights. When a person refuses to be vaccinated, without a medically necessary reason, then they are in essence endangering everyone else's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
A debate is fine when someone actually debates the merits of a treatment based on sound scientific evidence, especially when that someone understands the evidence, but there can be no real debate when only one entity understands the literature while the other person only seeks to make irrelevant comments that have no real merit.
Can you tell me more about this world organization that claims Americans scientists suck at research?
I understand the business narcissism that fuels the political ideology behind "privatization" and threatening ones livelihood willy nilly
Can you see how this statement may not be relatable on a site called allnurses.com? It would be like me going on a on a discussion board for Wall Street folks & talking a/b titrating vasopressors on a hypotensive patient.
wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA
5,128 Posts
Coincidence is not causation.
There are massive amounts of information on vaccine efficacy and safety that are just a couple of clicks away. All reported incidents of possible vaccine complications are an open source of information in the United States.