Flu shot issue

[coolpeach]

I get a flu shot every year without any problem, and took a flu shot at work this week. This flu shot hurt a lot. It burned going in, and literally made my eyes tear up. Usually it doesn't hurt at all. I work nights, and went home and to bed right after. When I woke up the area was very swollen, red, hot to touch, and very sore. I took two Tylenol and went to work thinking the new H1N1 made it hurt worse, and it would get better.

By the next morning I felt feverish, my throat was so sore I could barely swallow my own secretions, and I was having periods of dizziness. I would be sitting there charting and suddenly feel as if the room had spun sideways. I made it through the night, and went home to bed. I woke up and my throat was better, but I had nausea, a headache, and was achy all over. I was off for the night so I went back to bed, and had a really rough night. I would be cold, but wake up wet with sweat so I think I was sweating off a fever.

When I got up I had hives all over me 16 total (back, buttocks, and sides). Since I have been up I have two more appear. I am still have a headache, feel achy, and feel feverish even though it shows my temp is normal.

I called into work tonight, and plan on seeing the Dr in the morning.

This year my hospital REQUIRED us to get the flu vaccine, paid for it, and administered it. If this is indeed a reaction can they consider my call in an occurrence, or would it fall under the workers comp plan as a work related situation?

[martinhea13]

Don't be fooled. We could be called Communist Russia by that same standard. We live in a country that supresses transparency and disclosure and freedom of speech and yet regularly blasts the opposition parties for threatening democracy. I found the PM's evasiveness over getting the H1N1 shot last year to be very telling. Does anyone know if he (or his kids) ever got one??? Yet I was made to feel guilty as a healthcare worker/student nurse for not protecting my patients against something that was proving to be less deadly than seasonal flu.

[OttawaRPN]

What about Nursing Students who would be required to discontinue their clinical practicums (might as well repeat the year in that case) if an outbreak of "seasonal flu" occurs in hospital? I'm against the shot (had a mild reaction to the H1N1 last year) but have to take it for fear of being asked to discontinue from the course. I printed off our consent form (co-ersion form) which states the vaccination I'm agreeing to is voluntary. To me, this too goes against my charter rights. Am I wrong?

You'd probably only be required to wear a mask, uncomfortable, but no big deal.

If a facility is truly under quarantine, only necessary personnel would be allowed to enter hospital grounds anyway. When the big SARS outbreak occurred in Toronto a few years ago, no nursing students suffered adversely, their clinical times were simply accommodated elsewhere.

Take the easy way out, if necessarily, there are more doctors vehemently against flu shots than you can shake a stick at, find one to write you a "little note" and problem solved.

[CuriousMe]

Every year the WHO surveilles which strains of flu-like illnesses are circulating around the globe and obtain samples for their virus banks. They then decide which of the strains should be in the seasonal flu shot which is composed of an H1N1, H3N2 and B strain. It takes approximately 6 months to manufacture the vaccine and this roughly co-incides with the start of the flu seasons in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. Last year a strange entity called the H1N1 flu (which actually contains DNA from swine, birds and humans) showed up in Non-Flu season (suspicious huh?). Influenza is a cold weather bug which is why we get our shots in the fall as November to January are the peak months. The pandemic H1N1 vaccine had been in the manufacturing process one week after the first cases were seen in California and Mexico and barely made it to distribution because of the poor proliferation of the viral material in eggs. As well, there was no safety data from the H1N1p vaccine itself, the safety data was based on 'similar vaccine manufactured using similar processes. Canada and the US had different manufacturers (Canada's had a single supplier of vaccine containing adjuvant while the US had 5 suppliers of vaccine that did not contain adjuvant). Now the H1N1p antigen has been recombined, renumbered and is part of the trivalent seasonal flu vaccine. Now the 50% or so who thought the H1N1 virus was a hoax will probably end up getting it anyways when they get their seasonal flu shot.

Wow! Just Wow! Tough to even know where to start.

Well, at the very least...I'm not sure what you think is suspicious about a pandemic H1N1 strain. Pandemic flu strains are cyclical...the 1918 pandemic flu strain also started in the summer.

I think it must be exhausting in your world.....so sure that everyone's out to get you.

[CuriousMe]

Take the easy way out, if necessarily, there are more doctors vehemently against flu shots than you can shake a stick at, find one to write you a "little note" and problem solved.

Surely you're not suggesting fraud? That she ask a physician to lie and make up a health problem?

Wow! Just........wow.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I'd feel more comfortable using a religious exemption than asking a physician to commit fraud.

"Vaccines are against my personally held religious beliefs" - I believe it's against the law for anyone to question what your personal religious beliefs are or what church you are a member of.

Of course, they may also force you to not come to work if there's an outbreak. Or, they may just decide that you're too much of a liability and let you go altogether.

[CuriousMe]

You'd probably only be required to wear a mask, uncomfortable, but no big deal.

Maybe Canada is different, down here in the states....there doesn't need to be an outbreak.

Nursing students are guests at the hospital when they do clinicals. As such, the hospital can require whatever they want, including a flu shot. So no flu shot, no clinical, and of course with no clinical, no nursing school. This means that if the hospital requires it, and there isn't an alternate clinical site who doesn't require it....the student gets vaccinated or they're out of the program.

This is no different from the other requirements that hospitals have for students including Blood Borne Pathogen training, CPR, and other vaccinations.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

What amazes me is how controversial this issue is every dang year.

It is just a flu vaccine. Take it if you want, don't take it if you don't want. If you choose not to take it and your employer requires it and you feel that strongly then change employers.

The drama over this issue is mind blowing!:smokin::smokin:

Really, the only rational argument is that employees (all, not just nurses) without the vaccine expose vulnerable immune impaired patients to what could be for them a lethal illness.

Also, you could argue that with those with TRUE allergies should be offered some other option.

I don't want to work weekends or nights. So I work very hard to gain employment where that will not be an issue....

[martinhea13]

Wow! Just Wow! Tough to even know where to start.

Well, at the very least...I'm not sure what you think is suspicious about a pandemic H1N1 strain. Pandemic flu strains are cyclical...the 1918 pandemic flu strain also started in the summer.

I think it must be exhausting in your world.....so sure that everyone's out to get you.

Ok, so I'm wrong about the 1918 flu. It started in May (summer as you said). What is suspicious is the hype surrounding the pandemic that wasn't. As a Biotechnician (now turned Nursing Student), I'm familiar with viral DNA manipulation and smelled a rat. Ok, there! I smelled a rat, when I saw how much the Canadian government was spending to vaccinate every man woman and child in this country (52 billion doses) and less than 12 billion of the population got the shot. I smelled a rat when I read the insert that stated that no safety data for THIS vaccine existed and that it's approval was based on a similar TRIVALENT vaccine. Trivalent vaccines don't come with adjuvant... our vaccine did. So did the anthrax vaccine given to the Gulf War Vets, so do many other vaccines. I smelled a rat when they started sending body bags to the native populations in this country instead of vaccine. I smelled a rat when our own Prime Minister wouldn't get the shot and yet expected us to. I smelled a rat when our government appointed an ex-Pfizer CEO to become the head of our drug safety board. It's no secret that there are rats in the Government (you should know this as well) and they all get campaign contributions from big pharma just as much as from big oil.

As a matter of fact, I did what a good nurse is supposed to do and did her research. Instead of just "taking the damn shot", I asked questions. I even did an online survey and found that no one thought the pandemic was serious. More importantly people doubted the safety of the vaccine. I wrote letters, I asked people (everyday people) what they thought, I got educated about a system that is there for the corporate interests of it's shareholders and for no one else.

And if you're asking me to stop asking those questions, then you are asking me to cut out that part of my nursing profession called advocacy. As a nurse, I advocate for those who can't advocate for themselves. And so do you.

What does that say about a healthcare product that people don't trust? Why is that? What are the messages that people are listening to? If we don't start looking at those questions and finding solutions that are on our terms, then we will be looking at mandatory vaccination programs and there won't be a thing we can do about it.

Follow the money, it is to that end that corruption leads.

If you doubt it just try to get the Kalorama report (it's only $1200 bucks!) which would show who made what amount of money from this scam.

This is what the Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly had to say upon their review of the WHO and the H1N1 pandemic.

http://assembly.coe.int/Mainf.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12283.htm

[CuriousMe]

Ok, so I'm wrong about the 1918 flu. It started in May (summer as you said). What is suspicious is the hype surrounding the pandemic that wasn't. As a Biotechnician (now turned Nursing Student), I'm familiar with viral DNA manipulation and smelled a rat. Ok, there! I smelled a rat, when I saw how much the Canadian government was spending to vaccinate every man woman and child in this country (52 billion doses) and less than 12 billion of the population got the shot. I smelled a rat when I read the insert that stated that no safety data for THIS vaccine existed and that it's approval was based on a similar TRIVALENT vaccine. Trivalent vaccines don't come with adjuvant... our vaccine did. So did the anthrax vaccine given to the Gulf War Vets, so do many other vaccines. I smelled a rat when they started sending body bags to the native populations in this country instead of vaccine. I smelled a rat when our own Prime Minister wouldn't get the shot and yet expected us to. I smelled a rat when our government appointed an ex-Pfizer CEO to become the head of our drug safety board. It's no secret that there are rats in the Government (you should know this as well) and they all get campaign contributions from big pharma just as much as from big oil.

As a matter of fact, I did what a good nurse is supposed to do and did her research. Instead of just "taking the damn shot", I asked questions. I even did an online survey and found that no one thought the pandemic was serious. More importantly people doubted the safety of the vaccine. I wrote letters, I asked people (everyday people) what they thought, I got educated about a system that is there for the corporate interests of it's shareholders and for no one else.

And if you're asking me to stop asking those questions, then you are asking me to cut out that part of my nursing profession called advocacy. As a nurse, I advocate for those who can't advocate for themselves. And so do you.

What does that say about a healthcare product that people don't trust? Why is that? What are the messages that people are listening to? If we don't start looking at those questions and finding solutions that are on our terms, then we will be looking at mandatory vaccination programs and there won't be a thing we can do about it.

Follow the money, it is to that end that corruption leads.

If you doubt it just try to get the Kalorama report (it's only $1200 bucks!) which would show who made what amount of money from this scam.

This is what the Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly had to say upon their review of the WHO and the H1N1 pandemic.

http://assembly.coe.int/Mainf.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12283.htm

I agree that it's a problem that people don't trust. I think that and not the safety or efficacy of vaccines is the heart of the problem. Since people don't trust the scientific establishment, there's no way to show the safety or efficacy of any treatment, not just vaccines.

Oh, and a biased sample of people you know being surveyed....is hardly research. Even if it was a random sample....it doesn't speak to vaccine safety, it speaks to level of trust.

There is research about vaccine hesitancy. Here's two articles you might find interesting:

Salmon, D. A., Moulton, L. H., Omer, S. B., DeHart, M. P., Stokley, S., & Halsey, N. A. (2005). Factors associated with refusal of childhood vaccines among parents of school-aged children: A case-control study. Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, 159(5), 470-476.

Salmon, D. A., Pan, W. K., Omer, S. B., Navar, A. M., Orenstein, W., Marcuse, E. K., et al. (2008). Vaccine knowledge and practices of primary care providers of exempt vs. vaccinated children. Human Vaccines, 4(4), 286-291.

Does our scientific establishment always get it right? Of course not. But, I do trust that they're trying to get it right. Yes, big pharm is a business....but the CDC isn't. I of course question....I just don't approach the question coming from the standpoint that it's all a big conspiracy.

[martinhea13]

I agree that it's a problem that people don't trust. I think that and not the safety or efficacy of vaccines is the heart of the problem. Since people don't trust the scientific establishment, there's no way to show the safety or efficacy of any treatment, not just vaccines.

Oh, and a biased sample of people you know being surveyed....is hardly research. Even if it was a random sample....it doesn't speak to vaccine safety, it speaks to level of trust.

There is research about vaccine hesitancy. Here's two articles you might find interesting:

Salmon, D. A., Moulton, L. H., Omer, S. B., DeHart, M. P., Stokley, S., & Halsey, N. A. (2005). Factors associated with refusal of childhood vaccines among parents of school-aged children: A case-control study. Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, 159(5), 470-476.

Salmon, D. A., Pan, W. K., Omer, S. B., Navar, A. M., Orenstein, W., Marcuse, E. K., et al. (2008). Vaccine knowledge and practices of primary care providers of exempt vs. vaccinated children. Human Vaccines, 4(4), 286-291.

Does our scientific establishment always get it right? Of course not. But, I do trust that they're trying to get it right. Yes, big pharm is a business....but the CDC isn't. I of course question....I just don't approach the question coming from the standpoint that it's all a big conspiracy.

My survey was not of people I knew. I created a webpage with a form consisting of 15 questions. I put up posters around the city, got into the paper and onto Global news. I had respondents from all over Canada.

The CDC and FDA are notoriously tied at the hip.... I submit this article as food for thought:

US vaccines are licensed by the FDA and immunization recommendations are made by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), which is a committee whose members are appointed by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). ACIP immunization recommendations are enacted into law by public health departments and/or legislatures at the state level, via the energetic efforts of vaccine manufacturer sales representatives. While the ACIP does nothing more than craft and finalize the exact wording detailing recommended doses and ages for administration of vaccines, ACIP recommendations are extraordinarily influential, because they get turned into mandates at the state level.

http://www.laleva.cc/choice/vaccine_bekin.html

And as you succinctly stated... why don't people trust the scientific establishment??

What I found so interesting is that no one in the Government agencies I talked to acknowledged that compliance was an issue. I brought them the numbers (which were similar to an Ipsos-Reid poll) and said "you know, you guys, if vaccination really is the right way to go, aren't you concerned about the number of people (56%) who won't get this H1N1 vaccine. If it is a pandemic that could take a turn for the worst, why aren't people more freaked out about it? How can we create vaccines in a way that cannot be scrutinized as to their safety or efficacy and instill confidence in the public?" No one wanted to ask that question because no one wanted to conduct a review.

[OttawaRPN]

Surely you're not suggesting fraud? That she ask a physician to lie and make up a health problem?

Wow! Just........wow.

The poster already mentioned they had a mild reaction from a previous shot, so a simple "due to previous reaction, flu shot ill advised for patient" would be enough to cover the bases.

But holy sheet.... Talk about the melodramatic pot calling the kettle black.

It must be exhausting in your world... head so far up the butt that it's okay for sensationalism and scare mongering to trump the constitutional right to choose. Wow, just wow!

In a perfect world, everyone should be able to make decisions on vaccines and other healthcare questions in consultation with their families and doctors, not under pressure from Big Brother propaganda. Oh, wait a sec... I guess I live in that perfect world! Who knew?

But alas... as it concerns me little and affects me even less.... just carry on blindly being owned by your government, either directly or indirectly. Amusing and disturbing, to say the least!

[CuriousMe]

The poster already mentioned they had a mild reaction from a previous shot, so a simple "due to previous reaction, flu shot ill advised for patient" would be enough to cover the bases.

But holy sheet.... Talk about the melodramatic pot calling the kettle black.

It must be exhausting in your world... head so far up the butt that it's okay for sensationalism and scare mongering to trump the constitutional right to choose. Wow, just wow!

In a perfect world, everyone should be able to make decisions on vaccines and other healthcare questions in consultation with their families and doctors, not under pressure from Big Brother propaganda. Oh, wait a sec... I guess I live in that perfect world! Who knew?

But alas... as it concerns me little and affects me even less.... just carry on blindly being owned by your government, either directly or indirectly. Amusing and disturbing, to say the least!

Well, except that it wasn't the OP that you quoted, so it seems it wasn't the OP to whom you recommended committing fraud. Facts aren't a strong point of yours huh?

LOL I find it amusing that you feel that sensationalism and scare mongering are trumping any constitutional right. I've read anti-vaccine propaganda.....some amazingly sensationalistic material....but then again, fiction usually is.

Still waiting for which amendment of the Constitution deals with flu shots. But, I'm sorry....I don't mean to let facts get in the way of your sensationalism and scare mongering.

I think there's a deal on tin foil hats this week, you may want to stock up...