I don't appreciate your comment "are you in the slave trade", yes in the uk we do have family friendly policy, but the area we work in is highly specialized, we work in all area of hospital, this to include nurse led clinics (ultrasound, laser, per-post ops), our work also takes on the ward and theatres. To have someone in this post you are required to be RGN, with a post basic course in our speciality and furhter training to be specialize in area of our practice. It would take at least a year to train someone in this very specilized area and to have someone for 13hrs or so a week would just not work.
I seemed to remember from your previous posts that you were very specialised, and I would tend to agree that with it taking 12 months to train up at full time it is not efficient or an effective use of resources to employ someone at 13hours each week, I would also suggest that even at half time you are looking at 2 years before you have a fully trained nurse so even this may not be a feasible option unless you know of nurses who already have the skills you require. Unfortunaltey in todays current climate if you do not appoint into the hours you will loose them which will be detremental to the service you are trying to provide. Your original post asked for suggestions of how to phrase the refusal, the arguments you have already presented sound fairly convincing, run them by your HR department first they can tweek the wording for you.
Is there any way that there could be a comprimise with this nurse, condensed hours, annualised hours all part of family friendly working and options that I have used successfully in my team - I am in a similar position as it takes 6 - 12 months to train staff within my department all of who have young families and need flexibility. I think working in a smaller and specialised team can be harder to manage absence and needs for flexibility as there are less staff to pick up the workload.
PM me if there is anything else you think I can help with
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.
I don't appreciate your comment "are you in the slave trade", yes in the uk we do have family friendly policy, but the area we work in is highly specialized, we work in all area of hospital, this to include nurse led clinics (ultrasound, laser, per-post ops), our work also takes on the ward and theatres. To have someone in this post you are required to be RGN, with a post basic course in our speciality and furhter training to be specialize in area of our practice. It would take at least a year to train someone in this very specilized area and to have someone for 13hrs or so a week would just not work.
if it would take that long to train someone in your area then you may be onto a no win situation for example if you dont reduce her hours she may leave... and then you will loose her skills altogether, if you do allow it then you have to train someone else anyway, but you retain goodwill and morale within your team which could be useful in todays NHS as no one seems to care about demoralised staff....
maybe it would be better to at least retain the one nurse you have who is good at the role? she could help you to train the new nurse, and at least you would retain the nurse with these special skills
my comment about the slave trade was in reference to your presumed ownership of a nurse. "my nurse"
from your posts here, it appears that you have already made your mind up that the nurse reducing her hours is not going to work for you. i was just wondering what justification the nurse has to reduce her hours and to need special days.
it helps to hear both sides, not just yours as the manager and what works best for the job that you do.
as english nurse pointed out you could be onto a loser as she may just leave if she doesnt get what she needs.
Specializes in renal,peritoneal dialysis, medicine.
Under the circumstances as described, I think you should start looking for a new employee.
blimy, i am really looking forward to being a USA healthcare employee if that is a general view of working in the USA.
in the UK family friendly policies are more often than not part of hospital policy in fact i do believe that when they were issuing star ratings for hospitals (do they still do that?!?) improving working lives policy was a part of how a hospital was judged and rated, star ratings used to affect finance so less stars=less budget
infact i think my trust got in trouble for not having a policy in place....
Paris is there any way you could reach a comprimise with this nurse, she must know the problems that are face by your service and if you sit down and discuss it with her there may be some middle ground that can be reached which would suit everyone.
Paris is there any way you could reach a comprimise with this nurse, she must know the problems that are face by your service and if you sit down and discuss it with her there may be some middle ground that can be reached which would suit everyone.
As said before it is a full time post with only 2 nurses in a team, but i may be able to offer her to do 4 days week (longer hrs) with one day off, but i am unable to offer set days, set time. And also she may have to do full-time to cover holidays.
I have not suggested this to her this yet as i I have yet to see my lead nurse.
As said before it is a full time post with only 2 nurses in a team, but i may be able to offer her to do 4 days week (longer hrs) with one day off, but i am unable to offer set days, set time. And also she may have to do full-time to cover holidays.
I have not suggested this to her this yet as i I have yet to see my lead nurse.
I don't envy you it's sounds like a really difficult situation
my comment about the slave trade was in reference to your presumed ownership of a nurse. "my nurse"
from your posts here, it appears that you have already made your mind up that the nurse reducing her hours is not going to work for you. i was just wondering what justification the nurse has to reduce her hours and to need special days.
it helps to hear both sides, not just yours as the manager and what works best for the job that you do.
as english nurse pointed out you could be onto a loser as she may just leave if she doesnt get what she needs.
the nurse wants to reduce her hrs as she said she will regret later in her life not spending enough time with her children. they are age 12 & 14. (i understand that as i am mother of 3 children myself). i ran this serive for 5 yrs on my own but the service has grown rapidly and this nurse was appointed last august. she moved from south of england to us as her husband got the job here. but her husband never settled in his new job and decided to move back south. so her other argument for going part-time is that she now has children to look after herself.
i again understand that. but our service is rapidly growing to meet government deadline. our service is developing, and there is a need to have full time staff, not someone dipping every so many hrs a week. it is not like ward nursing or out patient nursing where the shift is stright early or evening or night, our service is unpredicablt and unplanned case load where flexiblity is essential. if one cannot offer flexiblity this job is not for you. this was made very clear in her interview and she reassured that there was not problem. ok circumstances in life changes and i understand that but then you have to move in job where they offers you suitable hrs. i am making every effort to help her to see if she can be moved in other area but no other senior sister can accomodate in their wards or dept the unrealistic hrs she is requesting. (7.30am - 8pm, mon and tuesday). certainly if she does not accept our offer of 4 days week remaing full-time (not disscused with her yet), she will have to move elsewhere. she has already been for 2 unsuccessful interviews (has high sickness and absentism record), she probably knows that we will be unable to accomodate her request as she know how busy the service is. if she leaves then so be it.
My understanding when I left the NHS in 2004 was that all jobs were open to job share and not strictly 18.75.
I believe if you get the right combination job share is a great option and the literature suggests you get a much better service with two nurses than one.
I job shared a 'F' grade on a busy surgical ward both of us with our set days unless we agreed between ourselves very successfully.
Seems to me that there may be other underlying reasons why you may feel less inclined to be flexible with her. The comment about absenteeism and sickness make me feel that this just may be the last straw - & I don't blame you for that.
However, I'm still not sure that current employment laws will make it terribly easy for you.
blimy, i am really looking forward to being a USA healthcare employee if that is a general view of working in the USA.
in the UK family friendly policies are more often than not part of hospital policy in fact i do believe that when they were issuing star ratings for hospitals (do they still do that?!?) improving working lives policy was a part of how a hospital was judged and rated, star ratings used to affect finance so less stars=less budget
infact i think my trust got in trouble for not having a policy in place....
This is going to be the biggest shock when you move here! AZ= right to work state. You soon get used to working in an easy come easy go environment-I have seen people get the 'sack' something I never saw in the NHS only if you murdered somebody to get their drugs lol.
Sorry off topic
I do beleive paris that you have a fight on your hands I know HR can refuse to accomodate requests, but I also know in reality that it is more difficult to 'get rid' of an employee who has put in a reasonable request.
You mention sickness and absenteeism as an ongoing problem, I do feel this may be part of being left by her husband to fend for 2 children who are at an age which are the most vunerable. I imagine the family must be going through hell, and if her husband leaving her was a shock just imagine the enjoyment the 'teenagers' are having in making sure she knows how they feel, and how she is leaving them for work in fact blaming her for everything wrong in their lives plus the world.
Compassion and sympathy must be upmost in your treatment of this woman, see if you can talk to her and discuss your ongoing problem with her and see if you as a manager can do anything to help her situation. I cant imagine she has an abundance of friends to help her out and I can understand her reluctance to allow her children to run wild which is what they will do left to their own devices. Maybe you can come to a happy conclusion by discusion. I am sure at this stage in her life loosing her job will just be the final straw.
I am sure when she took the job she didnt foresee the problems she has faced within her family as I am sure she would not have promised unrealistic goals during her interview.
XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN
1 Article; 3,020 Posts
I seemed to remember from your previous posts that you were very specialised, and I would tend to agree that with it taking 12 months to train up at full time it is not efficient or an effective use of resources to employ someone at 13hours each week, I would also suggest that even at half time you are looking at 2 years before you have a fully trained nurse so even this may not be a feasible option unless you know of nurses who already have the skills you require. Unfortunaltey in todays current climate if you do not appoint into the hours you will loose them which will be detremental to the service you are trying to provide. Your original post asked for suggestions of how to phrase the refusal, the arguments you have already presented sound fairly convincing, run them by your HR department first they can tweek the wording for you.
Is there any way that there could be a comprimise with this nurse, condensed hours, annualised hours all part of family friendly working and options that I have used successfully in my team - I am in a similar position as it takes 6 - 12 months to train staff within my department all of who have young families and need flexibility. I think working in a smaller and specialised team can be harder to manage absence and needs for flexibility as there are less staff to pick up the workload.
PM me if there is anything else you think I can help with