Final Warning

[nrsjo]

Has anyone ever received a disciplinary action because a doctor thought you were rude?

I was given a "final warning" at my job yesterday because a doctor went to administration and complained that I was rude to her. The actual statement on the complaint states that she asked me about her patient's condition and that I failed to provided information about the patient's outcomes and rudely stated "why are you asking me".

I actually thought this person was a CRNA. She never wears ID. That's besides the point. However, I was talking to another nurse about my patient at one end of the unit, and she walked in and said "How's my patient?". I did somewhat laughingly say I didn't know. I mean her patient is 3 stations away. It is a 28 bed unit. No one in administration has asked my side. Even my manager didn't take this seriously. I have never received a written anything before. This woman wanted me fired. But a final warning?? Plus she wanted the name of the nurse I was talking to because she thought we were talking about her. I had a patient trying to die all morning, I'm sorry if I was discussing it with a coworker.

Was I supposed to know to take this doc by the hand and walk her where her patient was (pts been there a week) and personally find her nurse for her or look through the chart for her and tell her about her patient. I was a bit busy myself.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

You've recieved some good advice here.

I can't believe though you got a final warning. That seems extreme. I'm a bit sensitive and if I got written up because of an incident like that I'd be angry. If we got written up every time a doc thought us rude we'd all be fired, or we'd be going backwards to the days when docs walked on water.

I had a doc make a complaint about me once, called me arrogant, etc. It's a long story. But administration talked to me about and everyone agreed the doc was over-reacting. Just because I have a brain and want to be talked to intelligently doesn't make me arrogant.

Anyway, good luck! If you ever see her again, I would causually stop her and clear the air.

[Stitchie]

Same type of thing happened where I used to work, to me.

I asked my manager why she was yelling at me about not knowing who a doc was when the doc had no ID, no coat and just said "give me the chart".

I told the doctor I couldn't do that because of HIPPA laws, and she wasn't wearing any ID. This was a Sunday so not many manager types were around, but one of the more senior nurses knew the doc. On Monday when I got called to the principal's office my side of the story was that I said that I couldn't do that because of HIPPA laws, but my manager enjoyed making employees feel like failures. She continued to yell...and I continued to look for another place of employment.

That made resigning fun for me, knowing that she'd never back me up on something trivial or serious, so I just dusted off my resume and found another job.

Good luck, with whatever you decide to do. Managers can be very testy about these things, especially if they ambitious and want to get promoted. That tends to change the way they see their employees, in my experience.

BTW, our employee manual states that any step can be skipped given the "serious" nature of the offense, but it sounds like a classic overreaction. Can you just write up your side of the story and present it to HR and your manager? Having a conversation with the doc, as others have mentioned, can't hurt, but I'd do so where there are many witnesses to your sunny nature and demeanor.

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

Get out the policy manual, look up filing grievences. You have a right to present your side of story and place notation in your personal file.

All the other advice good too.

Was involved in a 5th step hearing a few years back as grievence team member for a similar situation involving RN and Chief of Surgery who wanted her fired.

We supported the RN in that insufficient reason to fire over just ONE incidence. Surgeon finally at crow and accepted her applogy, along with outcome of our committee.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[SharonH, RN]

I'm with Heart Queen... But I would start with an eye-contact statement like, "I honestly didn't mean to offend you, but I understand that I did. I'm sorry."

I'm going to have to disagree with some of the others here and beg you to please do not do this! Do not go to this person, humble and hat in hand. This doc is already on a power trip and her goal is to put you in your place. We give them too much power already! Your manager really should have told her to take it up with you personally or at least asked you your side of the story. I am so sick of gutless nursing administration. The physician was wrong for not identifying herself to you and being more specific with her needs. I would write that up in my response to the matter. I have never had a doc walk up to me and start firing off questions without identifying him/herself first. Perhaps you were flippant but I bet she will get over it, if it was me she would have to.

Do not assume full responsibility for this!

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Beware the "friend" who is willing to sacrifice you, or your job, or your peace of mind or your whatever, in order to make her point.

You do what your conscience tells you to do, when you are in a quiet, peaceful and level headed place. You do what you believe to be right and just.

You never lose by being the more gracious one. You can sure lose by trying to win.

Ever hear of a "pyrrhic victory?" It's when you win the battle but lose the war.

[SharonH, RN]

Beware the "friend" who is willing to sacrifice you, or your job, or your peace of mind or your whatever, in order to make her point.

You do what your conscience tells you to do, when you are in a quiet, peaceful and level headed place. You do what you believe to be right and just.

You never lose by being the more gracious one. You can sure lose by trying to win.

Ever hear of a "pyrrhic victory?" It's when you win the battle but lose the war.

chris, I'm not sure what your point is but this sort of attitude is exactly that has left nurses in a position of vulnerability to physicians. If she "takes the high road" this time trying to placate this doctor then what next? The physician tried to get her fired for goodness sake just because she didn't like the way she answered her. Maybe next time, the doc might not like the way she looks at her or wears her hair. It's apparent that this person is paranoid and vicious. Give in to her and it could only get worse next time. Yes, do what your conscience tells you. If you honestly don't feel you were wrong, or if you feel that this physician bears some responsiblity for the way the exchange went down, then there is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself. Beware the "friends" who counsel you to get walked on all in the name of being "gracious". There are a ton of them in this profession.

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

I agree with many of the previous posters - make sure that it is written down that the Doctor had no visible identification tag. It does not matter if you have dealt with them before - you are not to know their level of education/standing in the hospital without that ID. Yes I would let them know that you thought she was a CRNA - and I mean absolutely no disrespect to CRNA's - I am just betting that if she knew you thought that her attitude would do a 180 degree turn around "Oh well she thought I was only {only! } a nurse."

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

The best thing to do with this doc is to approach her, ask what her grievance is with you and talk it out woman to woman. Screw the doctor/ nurse piece right now. Simply apologizing puts you in the wrong and she needs to know she, too, has an equal part in this. She has already proven her wish to control by screaming at your manager as well. Doctors who use power like this need to be called on it or it will snowball. Be tactful, but don't put up with it. (Just my 2 cents for the day.)

[bellehill, RN]

Doctors and nurses are both professionals who should be able to disucss problems in a professional manner. I find it very weird that you were given a final warning for a "flippant" remark to a MD. Talk to the doctor, keep it professional and have an objective person present if necessary. If you treat her with respect maybe she will return the favor?

[SharonH, RN]

The best thing to do with this doc is to approach her, ask what her grievance is with you and talk it out woman to woman. Screw the doctor/ nurse piece right now. Simply apologizing puts you in the wrong and she needs to know she, too, has an equal part in this. She has already proven her wish to control by screaming at your manager as well. Doctors who use power like this need to be called on it or it will snowball. Be tactful, but don't put up with it. (Just my 2 cents for the day.)

That is exactly what I was trying to say but your words got the point across so much better. Beautifully written!

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

I know a doctor just like this one, Sharon. He really isn't a bad guy, but I found he did need to be made aware that he couldn't go into attack mode and expect to get instant respect for it. What's that sjoe says again?