Family Member Watching Pro-terror/ Anti-America/ Anti-Semitic video

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Mar 25, 2018

We're up to seven pages of replies. No one has mentioned actually TALKING to the visitor, and finding out how they feel about the film. It's easy, "What do you think about that way of life?" Have you ever dealt with/worked with people like that?" Or casually mention "It scares me that the world is so much angrier than when I was a kid" Ask how they will raise their child with all the conflict in the world.

I bet in five minutes you'll be reassured, or terrified, and either way the decision to report or not will be a no brainer.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Mar 25, 2018

I actually posted immediately below her on page five answering this question, but I'll post again. As mandatory reporters she should report to her state Child Welfare Agency. Spankedinpittsburgh stated that was a video you can watch on major news stations. I 100% disagree. You cannot watch video coverage of wanting to kill the president or how to kill Jews on national television. That is abusive and criminal in nature and children should not be exposed to it. This is not a question of if you agree with it (super scary if you do) and it's not about your political affiliation, it's about protecting your patient which is a minor. I would then speak to the unit social worker. Your manager is not the end all of the conversation, the nurse is the patient advocate.

As mandated reporters, we are mandated by law to report suspected child abuse or neglect. A parent watching a video that the OP's colleague found offensive does not qualify as abuse or neglect. CPS would screen out this report before they hung up the phone. They are too busy dealing with actual child abuse and neglect. Between a social worker and I, we once filed four reports of child neglect in a 48 hr period due to a family tampering with the valium their child needed for her severe spasticity before anything was done and, even then, the response was less than stellar.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Mar 25, 2018

We are mandatory reporters, if you suspect (not have proof or confirmation just suspect) abuse of a patient you are required to contact DCF. This is not a HIPPA violation and can be done anonymously. It's your ethics call to decide if you suspect abuse. If you report something to social work and they don't follow through, your reporting mandate has not been fulfilled. You are responsible for assuring authorities are notified.
But it's not a he said she said kind of thing... DCF can't do anything with a report of what you told them your coworker told you... it's up to her to report it if she believes it should be based on what she witnessed. This is why social work rarely reports suspected abuse claims... it is a very rare legitimate case of "it's not my job".
You can't delegate this. As for the department of homeland security... they already know, don't worry.

This isn't accurate. The law in my state, verbatim, says: "If a mandated reporter is a member of the staff of a medical or other public or private institution, school or facility, the mandated reporter may instead notify the person or designated agent in charge of such institution, school or facility who shall become responsible for notifying the department in the manner required by this section."

When I worked in the hospital, it was our social worker or the child protection team who were the designated filers. There is another section of the law that says that, if the institution decides that a filing is not necessary but an individual employee goes ahead and files on his/her own, no retaliation can be taken against him/her but it is not required for the individual employee to do this. If you, as the staff nurse, notify the social worker or child protection team of your concerns, your obligation has been fulfilled.

When I was a clinical manager for a home care agency, I would have expected my staff to notify me of suspected child abuse/neglect issues they encountered and I would have done the filing if necessary. This did happen twice- once because a home health aide observed a father beating a mother in the presence of children (CPS did nothing because the children weren't the ones beaten) and once when we accepted a referral for a home safety assessment for a child who got into the mother's suboxone or something and she refused to answer the phone/call the nurse back. Since we accepted responsibility for assessing the child's safety in the home and were unable to do that, I passed the buck to CPS. Never found out what happened with that case.

When I worked in a school, it was the school counselor who did most of the filing. I have a close friend who is an adjustment counselor in a school and, for her school, she does the filing and my best friend, who is a school psychologist herself, once worked in a school where the Principal was the designated person to file. In the school she works in now, each individual staff member is expected to do it.

Anonymous865 · Mar 25, 2018

And what scares me is that so many are advocating thought control. What part of "1984" did we not understand? The idea of sicccing law enforcement on someone for what they're thinking makes my blood run cold.

Not just 1984. Did we not learn anything from the McCarthy trials in the '50s?

Buckeye.nurse · Mar 25, 2018

And what scares me is that so many are advocating thought control. What part of "1984" did we not understand? The idea of sicccing law enforcement on someone for what they're thinking makes my blood run cold.

I've never read this book, but there's been some discussion about it in my book club lately. Now after your comment here, I *really* want to read it. I agree that policing thoughts is a dangerous, slippery slope.

Neats, BSN · Mar 26, 2018

I am shaking my head. Do you feel safe? Do you feel the safety of the children are in immediate danger with their life? If so then follow protocol.

Just because you witnessed something that was distasteful, disgusting, again was there any immediate danger to yourself or your patient(s). If not then I would suggest you provide direct patient care for your patient and leave the area as soon as possible.

I am a Bolshevik Jew whose family were transplanted in Germany right before the war. My uncle has a concentration camp number tattoo on his arm, this is way too close to home. When we lived in Germany I lived near Dachau a concentration camp. My father in law worked with the French Resistance during the war and he assisted with some escapes of Dachau prisoners during the war.

My twin boys were born in Germany in a town called Bad Tolz. This town during the war was Hitler's headquarters for SS training. When my sons were 2 and my daughter was 3 we walked into town to get some treats, my children placing their faces against the bakery windows looking at all the wonderful deserts, and the old German women saying Oh look at the Hitler Babies...(they had blonde hair and blue eyes) Did they think of us as "throw away people" no I think they were from a time that this was the norm, its like hearing the word groovy from a hippie (that would be me). We cannot erase history but we can learn from it.

I am also a believer in free speech and if there was no immediate danger then I would speak to the social worker, my supervisor but there is not a lot you can do. Free speech is a gift we must all support no matter how distasteful it maybe.

Like responses from a lot of our peers we cannot make people conform to our way of thinking, they have rights, freedom just like us. We see this daily on the news in print and TV, and on the radio. All I can do is be a good productive member of society and hope these people do not have an impact on my life, on my friends/family lives. I hope we can all learn by these people of what not to do. The more we give them attention the more they will do it. It is best to take a lesson from the Amish and shun them. I will always take care of these kinds of people but never would I give them the time of day outside of their health care needs.

Lisacar130 · Mar 26, 2018

Was this video on a phone or how were they watching it? On the TV? Is it possible this was a documentary of some kind and the nurse just happened to walk in at a bad time and this clip wasn't representative of the entire video? How much of the video did the nurse see?

OldDude · Mar 26, 2018

I am shaking my head. Do you feel safe? Do you feel the safety of the children are in immediate danger with their life? If so then follow protocol.
Just because you witnessed something that was distasteful, disgusting, again was there any immediate danger to yourself or your patient(s). If not then I would suggest you provide direct patient care for your patient and leave the area as soon as possible.
I am a Bolshevik Jew whose family were transplanted in Germany right before the war. My uncle has a concentration camp number tattoo on his arm, this is way too close to home. When we lived in Germany I lived near Dachau a concentration camp. My father in law worked with the French Resistance during the war and he assisted with some escapes of Dachau prisoners during the war.
My twin boys were born in Germany in a town called Bad Tolz. This town during the war was Hitler's headquarters for SS training. When my sons were 2 and my daughter was 3 we walked into town to get some treats, my children placing their faces against the bakery windows looking at all the wonderful deserts, and the old German women saying Oh look at the Hitler Babies...(they had blonde hair and blue eyes) Did they think of us as "throw away people" no I think they were from a time that this was the norm, its like hearing the word groovy from a hippie (that would be me). We cannot erase history but we can learn from it.
I am also a believer in free speech and if there was no immediate danger then I would speak to the social worker, my supervisor but there is not a lot you can do. Free speech is a gift we must all support no matter how distasteful it maybe.
Like responses from a lot of our peers we cannot make people conform to our way of thinking, they have rights, freedom just like us. We see this daily on the news in print and TV, and on the radio. All I can do is be a good productive member of society and hope these people do not have an impact on my life, on my friends/family lives. I hope we can all learn by these people of what not to do. The more we give them attention the more they will do it. It is best to take a lesson from the Amish and shun them. I will always take care of these kinds of people but never would I give them the time of day outside of their health care needs.

Wow, what an impressive, heroic, and SCARY background and immigration story. Thank you for sharing...I believe I understand your point of view.

sugarmagnolia3 · Mar 26, 2018

Would love to know your thoughts.
A coworker was stunned to go into a room and find a parent watching an pro-terrorism, anti-America, anti-Semitic video. Allegedly, it was calling for the destruction of the president, America, Jews. She was horrified at the content and even more so horrified that the parent was watching in front of the child, and didn't seem to care if she heard.
She called Risk Management who said there was nothing to do, because it would be a violation of HIPAA.
I felt DCS should have been called because it is emotionally abusive to subject a child to hate speech. (we're talking actual hate speech, here). She was going to consult with a social worker on this aspect.
I also suggested she make an anonymous FBI and/or Homeland Security tip.
Please discuss.

Hi Everyone,

I've enjoyed the responses, and some of you have made me stop to remember that listening to hate speech isn't a crime, even if the actual hate speech may be, so thank you for that takeaway. I've also delved into what hate speech actually is, and what kinds of speech aren't necessarily protected speech. To clarify, per my coworker, so this is alleged, the type of speech that was being spoken called for violence and killing of named individuals, such as the president, and a specific groups of people. That is not constitutionally protected speech. It wasn't just "impeach this jackass orange-haired fool president, and remove him from office."

Here are the types of speech not necessarily protected: https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=34258

For quick comparison, other types of speech not protected are extortion and child Media.

I think it is interesting that some assumed the sex, ethnicity and religious-leaning of the person. No one assumed correctly. I don't think those details are important enough to share though. It is the principles that are important.

Here is what a friend's husband and group of coworkers who work for Dept of Homeland Security said:

"yes you have free speech. But you are supposed to report legitimate concerns. It could be nothing. She/he could have just been watching these videos of her own people in disgust. Or she/he could be into it and have other family or friends that pose potential problems. She/he isn't guilty of anything. But putting her/him on the radar for them to look into is what you should do for legitimate concerns"

"Just like the kid who shot up the school in FL. People should have and DID report instances of possible warning signs on the FL shooter. Action was never taken, but it should have been..."

Here is my personal opinion: I think it is twisted to compare the advocacy and incitement of murder and violence of actual people, to video games and movies, and what you hear the nightly news. It is not the same thing. Yeah, kids probably "shouldn't be" subjected to some of those things either because it's not good parenting, but it IS actually a crime to subject children to child Media or extort your children.

To those of you who made comments about doing my job and not judging: I didn't judge. This wasn't my patient. I told the story second-hand. Re-read the original post. The nurse who told me about what transpired is an excellent, skilled, compassionate nurse, who always puts her personal beliefs aside at work. She's also not easily offended by any means. She cared for the patient, and then brought up her concerns to the appropriate channels. The experts in Child Welfare and Homeland Security can decide if any of it is an issue, because my friend, like myself, and like all of the rest of you, who are nurses are not experts in these topics, which is another major takeaway for me. I'm an expert in nursing. That's pretty much it.

sugarmagnolia3 · Mar 26, 2018

Was this video on a phone or how were they watching it? On the TV? Is it possible this was a documentary of some kind and the nurse just happened to walk in at a bad time and this clip wasn't representative of the entire video? How much of the video did the nurse see?

She could hear it, not see it. It was on while she was providing care to the minor child in the room. It was going back and forth between English and a different language. I guess there is the possibility that it was a documentary, but to her it sounded like propaganda. We'll never actually know.

OldDude · Mar 26, 2018

sugarmagnolia3, although your post engaged a lot of different opinions, I think a lot of us had a chance to contemplate our own attitude about the subject and look at it in a different light; I know I did.

Thank you

Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Mar 26, 2018

I'm Jewish and lost a large part of my family in Auschwitz II-Birkenau. Only my father and grandparents survived. When I was a child, my mother would show me books with terrible pictures of what happened there, and made me watch documentaries so that I could understand my heritage. I'm very grateful to her now that she taught me that. She made me watch all kinds of documentaries so I would learn what was going on the world, and she would ask me my opinions afterwards. I'm lucky to have had a mother like that. Sometimes you have to watch disturbing things to learn and to form an opinion as to which side you're on and why. Some people may have been shocked at my mother for doing that, but she did the right thing.