Failed Abortions

[Kalico]

Let me start out by saying that this is not an attempt to start a debate on a abortions. Some of you may say that what I am going to say in this thread is an "urban legend" but I would still appreciate knowing if anyone has ever had this happen and what the legal response would be.

When I was in high school several years ago I read an article that was supposedly written by a NICU nurse. In this article this nurse stated that she took care of a baby that was supposed to have been aborted yet somehow survived the procedure. I don't know what the baby's state was but this nurse stated that the mom didn't want anything done for the baby, no meds, no life-saving procedures, nothing. She said that somehow this baby made it through the first few hours and was fighting to survive yet the nurse wasn't allowed to do anything for the baby except watch her die. I am wondering if this is allowed and if so how as a nurse can I legally fight having to partake in something like this? Or does this even happen anymore? Thanks in advance.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

Dutchgirl, you could not have changed the outcome no matter what you did. Even today a 21 weeker can not survive. I'm sorry for your experience.

Thank you fergus51, that's what I've heard from anyone I've ever asked. Even though I know in my heart that it's true, I appreciate hearing again. Thanks.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

Why wasn't the mother allowed to hold the baby for those three hours?

The doctor knew the child would not survive, the doctor didn't want to be sued for doing nothing. Which was actually the kindest thing to do. The mother expected the child to be delivered dead and thought he was stillborn.

What do you mean a decision had to be made within 5 minutes - the baby lived for three whole hours.

Actually the decision had to be made within seconds. The baby was blue when delivered, going without oxygen for even 1-2 minutes would have meant irreversible brain damage. His respirations were only 5-10 per minutes, down to 3-5 per minutes in the last hour and pulse was never above 60.

[LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP]

I agree, I don't think there is really any hope for a true 21w. The alveolar sacs just aren't developed. We've recently lost 2 chronics in our NICU that were 24 weekers. They lived almost a year, but it came down to the fact they were just too early and their organs couldn't handle it.

As for the abortion thing, life is not black and white.

[fergus51]

Thank you fergus51, that's what I've heard from anyone I've ever asked. Even though I know in my heart that it's true, I appreciate hearing again. Thanks.

You're a sweetie for caring and what you did was 100% right imo. The people who claim all babies should be rescucitated just don't seem to understand what that involves or what is and isn't possible. If that was my baby, I would be grateful to know that you held him and comforted him in your arms for his time on this earth.

[DOUBLE DEE]

I have seen 2nd trimester abortions survive, even when we used to do saline abortions, occassionally a fetus would survive. I don't know the long term outcome of these babies.

[prmenrs, RN]

In an effort to prevent this thread from getting off track (and bursting into flames), I have removed some posts. I hope that keeps the debate civil. Please.

[SE_BSN_RN, BSN]

Well I have to throw my 2 cents in here. I was born at 25 weeks in 1977 and survived.....my twin brother, however, only lived a few hours. I was not a failed abortion attempt though, and I'm not sure that it matters much....so is there much difference between a 22w surviving than a 25w?

[fergus51]

Well I have to throw my 2 cents in here. I was born at 25 weeks in 1977 and survived.....my twin brother, however, only lived a few hours. I was not a failed abortion attempt though, and I'm not sure that it matters much....so is there much difference between a 22w surviving than a 25w?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't stress this enough. If you go to your textbooks, you'll see why. 25 weekers have decent lungs, not great but decent. 22 weekers don't. We can't make alveoli for them.

[SE_BSN_RN, BSN]

Ok thanks, I was just curious, and can't find my L&D book, so let me say so I don't get jumped all over in case someone thought that I asked a stupid question (not implying anyone thinks so, just IN CASE....) I don't work in L&D or NICU, I work in LTC....that is one of my dreams (L&D) but I have to get into RN school first! Thanks Ferg!

[prmenrs, RN]

It's not a stupid ??, LVN, it's not something you would've encountered thus far. Fetuses don't have alveoli til ~ 23 wks, they are just developing the upper lung structures, bronchi, bronchioles and "lung buds"--future alveoli. So @ 23 wks, it just depends on that particular baby's "schedule" as to how many alveoli s/he has @ 23 wks, and how well they will work if needed.

Surfactant (what is put into the lungs to help the baby breathe) only works in alveoli. Lung buds continue to develop until birth, and alveoli continue to develop til about age 5--which is why young children should not be exposed to cigarette smoke, kids who are develop fewer alveoli.

I hope that helps---

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread!!

[fergus51]

No such thing as a stupid question! Good luck with your studies lvn2bsoon:)

[danissa, LPN, LVN]

What does happen to aborted fetuses, anyway?

I think the point is that if the fetus is viable and is delivered alive, it's not just a lump of tissue that can be discarded. Even if the parents choose not to provide life-sustaining measures, at the very least that baby should be held and comforted as it takes its last breaths.

Aborted fetus here are treated as human waste tissue and would be incinerated with amputations etc! Sad isn't it, where does sanctity of life and soul come in? I have no firm views on abortion, I must say, it is down to individual situation and choice. Still sad though, a possible wee life thrown in with diseased waste tissue.