i'm still just in shock. Some had been there for 30 plus years. Everyone was called into HR and told they were no longer needed and would not be working another shift. So much for my educational loan assistance....
So we were good enough to take teams of patients and make half RN pay while doing the work before, but as soon as the hospital had budget issues, we were suddenly not good enough nurses anymore apparently.
Obviously it was impossible to work on hospital layoffs throughout the entire hospital rather than targeting one class. (sarcastic)
Psychnurse, I make 15.00 per hour, while the RN I work with makes 28.00, which is why I said for the bargain price of almost half as much. Now do you see where I am coming from? And recently, our union told us all the nurses were getting a dollar an hour raise....imagine my suprise when none of the 3 LPN's working here received one. Administration was shocked that we were upset. It's the fact that we aren't appreciated as nurses also that hurts us. The fact that people outside of nursing do not see us as nurses and that we are expendable.
Suzanne nailed the reailty, though. LPN's who don't want to get the RN - and I can quite understand that - need a back-up plan in this day and age.
Canada's LPN's equate to our RN's. The EU no longer trains LPN's. Hospitals employ us less often.
That said, as someone older whose non-health care job was out-sourced, I detest how disposable we older workers have become. We're the first to go when the PTB want to get cheaper labor - and that applies from the experienced LPN to the experienced programmer.
May I lighten the mood and bit and present some realitity. LPNs do not make half of an RNs wage. It does get annoying hearing that. Well...maybe I should rephrase this... where I live LPNs do not get half an RNs salary. LPN by me make maybe 5 or 6 less an hour.
That's all I have to say for now. I just don't like hearing it said that way. It upset me like some how it is my fault that I make a little more because of my creditentials and education.
Well the sad truth is that in my area RNs do make what I consider to be lot more. I went from $23 to $38 + differential which still irritates me because not only am I doing an almost identical job but I'm also upset by the suspicion that the experienced LPNs who trained me and still can run circles around me are making so much less. Don't get me wrong because I'm very proud to be a RN and don't want to give back one penny that I make its just that personally I do feel that even $5 or $6 an hour is a big chunk. It adds up to nearly an extra $1,000 a month for a 40 hour a week employee. Thats a mortgage payment in a modest area.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
psychnurse, i make 15.00 per hour, while the rn i work with makes 28.00, which is why i said for the bargain price of almost half as much. now do you see where i am coming from? and recently, our union told us all the nurses were getting a dollar an hour raise....imagine my suprise when none of the 3 lpn's working here received one. administration was shocked that we were upset. it's the fact that we aren't appreciated as nurses also that hurts us. the fact that people outside of nursing do not see us as nurses and that we are expendable.
even people within nursing don't always see lpns as nurses. some hate that there are some lpns that are exceptionally bright and can use a bit of advanced critical judgement. but, when the chips go down and no one else is available, then, suddenly, you are 'nurse'. my thought is that we were always nurses. what gets some people by is not the book knowledge, but past experience and observations.
again, i am not angry. but i am realistic...i see it for what it is. i guess what seperates me a bit is that i have never allowed others to determine my personal value as a person or my personal career direction.
I didn't mean to say anything to offend RNs. I believe that you have earned your prudentials and should be recognized for it. You did take more in depth courses and have more responsibility, hence, deserve the title. I think that what most LPNs are saying is not to discount our talents and contributions to the health care team. Most of us were trained to do a great deal and are limited to do so, many times, not based on the state they reside in, but arbitary policy and procedures of the facilities that employ us, which cause confusion. This happens because when they are short of staff, suddenly, the LPN can do many of these things but, when the tide shifts, the Practical Nurse is pushed back and are told that suddenly they are incompetent.
Most LPNs start out with just wanting to make an honest living, maybe by taking the quicker road to becoming a nurse (maybe due to the stiff competition of RN programs, or a more immediate financial need), but, nonetheless, want to work and care for patients. It is the see-saw situation that is (from what I have heard and witnessed) that frustrates the average LPN. At times, the LPN is subtlely told that they don't count. Many times, job postings are not listed under nursing, but as supportive staff, also, even though we are performing nursing duties, are not counted on the daily supervisor staff roster as nurses...it would be worded as "We have 4 nurses and one LPN", adding more insult to injury.
In addition, policies written regarding what LPNs can and cannot do are asked to be broken when it is convienent, and then told that we are not being team members when we refuse. An example of this is for NY, LPNs cannot perform any skills on central lines, therefore are not even taught how to do it in school. My first day working per diem on a med-surg floor, I discovered that a patient I was assigned to medicate had a central line. The RN told me that "other LPNs do it", therefore, had issues with me refusing. I told her it is not within my scope of practice and if something were to happen, no one would back me up. I didn't back down, but there are many that are intimidated to do what is clearly not within their scope of practice in order to keep the peace and not face the hazing that does, in fact take place. I can go on with additional stories of this, but the point is there are reasons for some of the quandery. I know that most answers the LPN will receive is "Well, just go for your RN". That is not a choice available for everyone; and not a personal choice for me. Or, another observation I noticed is that when a person is an LPN, most comments are not congradulatory, but when a person moves from LPN to RN, then, the comment becomes "NOW, you are a NURSE". What does that say to the person who already valued themselves even before obtaining that title?
I don't place blame on individuals at all. I see RNs and all members of the health care team as just that-a team that should have a common interest. I believe that the plight of the LPN is simply "recognize us...we are nurses as well in our own right". Sorry, I know I went on a soap box...I guess I am trying to explain another side to it and hope that I was at least a bit successful.
I understand what you are saying. As an RN I do get frustrated when I see things regarding what LPN can do and what actually happens because it is more convenient for management. You get your hand slapped for doing something while getting yelled at for not doing something. I also agree that LPNs are a nurse in their own right. They should not be viewed as a sub-RN. These are 2 different roles working together. Even as RNs we get this type of mentality... oh, just didn't want to put forth the effort to be a doctor. Umm, no, I prefer the nursing model. No desire to be a doc, thanks! :) I can't complain about the LPNs where I work. They do a great job.
But as an RN, let me tell you what frustrates me. Where I work, LPNs and RNs were considered, "staff nurses" so one day I was working my side of the unit and an LPN was working the other side. Something wasn't going right on the LPNs side and she didn't tell me. I was told I am the charge nurse (only used at their convenience, no extra pay, title really doesn't exist by us anyways) and that I should tell her how to run her side. I said to my manager, I have 25 residents and now you are telling me that you are going to hold me accountable for the other 25. That is stretching my license too thin. They said that she wants to send someone out the to ER and I should go over there and determine if it is warranted, even thought she already obtained the MD order to send out. I was like... what?? They were upset with her for calling the MD without informing me... apparently she can't do that anymore without my All Powerful RN blessings. Whatever!
LPNs are nurses They practice pratical nursing and RNs practice professional nursing. There is enough work for the both titles to do.
I know LPNs work damn hard and are many times slapped in the face. That does upset me. This RN works very hard to advocate for my fellow LPNs. All of you are a valued member of the nursing team! You are smart... You are talented... You are the nurse! Keep rocking on!!
Psychnurse, I make 15.00 per hour, while the RN I work with makes 28.00, which is why I said for the bargain price of almost half as much. Now do you see where I am coming from? And recently, our union told us all the nurses were getting a dollar an hour raise....imagine my suprise when none of the 3 LPN's working here received one. Administration was shocked that we were upset. It's the fact that we aren't appreciated as nurses also that hurts us. The fact that people outside of nursing do not see us as nurses and that we are expendable.
Holy COW... RNs do not make that where I work. I make a little over $21 an hour (with a BSN and $60,000 student debt). But in your scenario I understand what you are saying about almost making half. I think I need to move to a different state!
Well the sad truth is that in my area RNs do make what I consider to be lot more. I went from $23 to $38 + differential which still irritates me because not only am I doing an almost identical job but I'm also upset by the suspicion that the experienced LPNs who trained me and still can run circles around me are making so much less. Don't get me wrong because I'm very proud to be a RN and don't want to give back one penny that I make its just that personally I do feel that even $5 or $6 an hour is a big chunk. It adds up to nearly an extra $1,000 a month for a 40 hour a week employee. Thats a mortgage payment in a modest area.
Ummm.... $23 to $38. :smackingf
I need to move. Going from an LPN to RN by me will go from $17 to $21... not that big of a move. Wow, $38... I think I am going to be sick....It puts my $21 something to shame. But good for you for making the cash!
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Holy COW... RNs do not make that where I work. I make a little over $21 an hour (with a BSN and $60,000 student debt). But in your scenario I understand what you are saying about almost making half. I think I need to move to a different state!
It is interesting to note the vast difference in salary over the states. Many seem to pay RNs a difference of $5, which shocks me to no end, and here in New York, the salary difference is huge. The average LPN can make about $40,000 per year and an RN can easily start at $70,000. However the cost of living in the metropolitan area is considerably higher. I make at least $30 an hour for agency work here, but it doesn't go as far as it might elsewhere in the USA. It really does depend on where you live.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I understand what you are saying. As an RN I do get frustrated when I see things regarding what LPN can do and what actually happens because it is more convenient for management. You get your hand slapped for doing something while getting yelled at for not doing something. I also agree that LPNs are a nurse in their own right. They should not be viewed as a sub-RN. These are 2 different roles working together. Even as RNs we get this type of mentality... oh, just didn't want to put forth the effort to be a doctor. Umm, no, I prefer the nursing model. No desire to be a doc, thanks! :) I can't complain about the LPNs where I work. They do a great job.
But as an RN, let me tell you what frustrates me. Where I work, LPNs and RNs were considered, "staff nurses" so one day I was working my side of the unit and an LPN was working the other side. Something wasn't going right on the LPNs side and she didn't tell me. I was told I am the charge nurse (only used at their convenience, no extra pay, title really doesn't exist by us anyways) and that I should tell her how to run her side. I said to my manager, I have 25 residents and now you are telling me that you are going to hold me accountable for the other 25. That is stretching my license too thin. They said that she wants to send someone out the to ER and I should go over there and determine if it is warranted, even thought she already obtained the MD order to send out. I was like... what?? They were upset with her for calling the MD without informing me... apparently she can't do that anymore without my All Powerful RN blessings. Whatever!
LPNs are nurses They practice pratical nursing and RNs practice professional nursing. There is enough work for the both titles to do.
I know LPNs work damn hard and are many times slapped in the face. That does upset me. This RN works very hard to advocate for my fellow LPNs. All of you are a valued member of the nursing team! You are smart... You are talented... You are the nurse! Keep rocking on!!
I think that your supervisor went over the gun. I do believe that the LPN should have told you, but unless there was a reason for your immediate attention such as a code, it does seem as the LPN handled the situation properly, because she called the doctor and had the patient sent to the ER. No matter what the situation, no nurse can really do but so much without the orders of the physician.
Many RNs at my job are forced to take on the charge nurse position without the recognition. And, they offer a whopping $3.00 a day for charge duties. Poor compensation for their hard efforts to take on the responsibility for an entire unit. Preceptorship is also $3.00 a day, and they only want RNs to precept new nurses. These things do not give incentive for anyone to constantly place their licenses on the line.
I think that reading this thread did show you the vast pay differences within the United States. There are really RNs in areas that do, in fact, make double (or close to) than the LPN for similar work (as you can see in my state, NY). These things make it very hard and add to the burdens and interactions between the two sorts of nurses. The LPN is feeling that she is not getting fairly compensated for the demands and the RN basically feels dumped on, because really, it is a human being that is taking on this responsibility. The fact that suddenly, you were deemed responsible for 50 patients can make one resentful, because no matter what title you have, physically and emotionally, you can only be one place at a time. And, to have to take the ultimate responsibility and accountability for someone else's actions can be frightening. What if something went wrong and the LPN didn't even contact the physician, never mind you? Then, you have to take the heat?? That isn't fair, either.
I think that if this happens again, you should tell the LPN to inform you, so, at least, the both of you can be on the same page if questioned. Happens all the time. I have had to jump and do plenty of things in place of the RN, and what I do is tell her as soon as possible, so that we can both document that the other was aware.
I think that your supervisor went over the gun. I do believe that the LPN should have told you, but unless there was a reason for your immediate attention such as a code, it does seem as the LPN handled the situation properly, because she called the doctor and had the patient sent to the ER. No matter what the situation, no nurse can really do but so much without the orders of the physician.
Many RNs at my job are forced to take on the charge nurse position without the recognition. And, they offer a whopping $3.00 a day for charge duties. Poor compensation for their hard efforts to take on the responsibility for an entire unit. Preceptorship is also $3.00 a day, and they only want RNs to precept new nurses. These things do not give incentive for anyone to constantly place their licenses on the line.
I think that reading this thread did show you the vast pay differences within the United States. There are really RNs in areas that do, in fact, make double (or close to) than the LPN for similar work (as you can see in my state, NY). These things make it very hard and add to the burdens and interactions between the two sorts of nurses. The LPN is feeling that she is not getting fairly compensated for the demands and the RN basically feels dumped on, because really, it is a human being that is taking on this responsibility. The fact that suddenly, you were deemed responsible for 50 patients can make one resentful, because no matter what title you have, physically and emotionally, you can only be one place at a time. And, to have to take the ultimate responsibility and accountability for someone else's actions can be frightening. What if something went wrong and the LPN didn't even contact the physician, never mind you? Then, you have to take the heat?? That isn't fair, either.
I think that if this happens again, you should tell the LPN to inform you, so, at least, the both of you can be on the same page if questioned. Happens all the time. I have had to jump and do plenty of things in place of the RN, and what I do is tell her as soon as possible, so that we can both document that the other was aware.
I did talk with the LPN, we kinda made it a running joke. Whenever I would see her I would say, "need a RN consult yet?" But we also had a serious talk and I explained that apparently the rules have changed. Even though I kept it light, I could tell that she was upset (not with me). I did say to the manager that I can not be held accountable for another person's practice if that person never informed me of something going wrong. I also said that an LPN is to seek an RN or an MD and since the MD was already contacted, this was now a medically driven intervention and no longer a nursing one. I did end up running down to the patient and performed an assessment as the EMTs were about to transfer the patient to the stretcher. I figure that way at least I could go behind her charting and acknowledge that I agreed with the need for the patient to be sent out. Again, the MD already stated that and ordered it. But, at least she couldn't get in trouble for not getting an RN.
Sorry... got a little off topic.
Nursing needs to come together. I can't help but feel that the nursing system is broken. We need to support one another and stop fighting each other.
Flowerbudd, I am so sorry to hear that! You may also want to try home health care, if you have at least 6 months experience in med/surg or LTC/Rehab. I am an L.P.N. in IL and work for a home health care agency that specializes in Peds. I usually work 4-5 10 or 11 hour shifts per week. Sometimes up to 20 hours in one day and then I have half my week over with in one day. I am planning on going back to school this summer as well. Also with home health care, you usually have some down time....which would be perfect for studying. I worked in a physician's office, which did not work out well for me. As a nurse we are taught to be as thorough as possible and obtain as much information as we can. In a physician's office, that is not what they want you to do. They want you to gather just very basic information as quickly as possible (time is money to them) and get out. I say leave the offices to the MAs. That is what they are trained for. Good luck and God Bless!!!
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I did talk with the LPN, we kinda made it a running joke. Whenever I would see her I would say, "need a RN consult yet?" But we also had a serious talk and I explained that apparently the rules have changed. Even though I kept it light, I could tell that she was upset (not with me). I did say to the manager that I can not be held accountable for another person's practice if that person never informed me of something going wrong. I also said that an LPN is to seek an RN or an MD and since the MD was already contacted, this was now a medically driven intervention and no longer a nursing one. I did end up running down to the patient and performed an assessment as the EMTs were about to transfer the patient to the stretcher. I figure that way at least I could go behind her charting and acknowledge that I agreed with the need for the patient to be sent out. Again, the MD already stated that and ordered it. But, at least she couldn't get in trouble for not getting an RN.
Sorry... got a little off topic.
Nursing needs to come together. I can't help but feel that the nursing system is broken. We need to support one another and stop fighting each other.
Absolutely. We need to stick together rather than have such one upmanship...this is what divides us tremendously. Glad that the two of you can at least work together. It is a shame that they feel it takes a rocket scientist to ascertain that emergent assistance is needed for a patient...:angryfire
kimmie4476, ASN, RN
107 Posts
Psychnurse, I make 15.00 per hour, while the RN I work with makes 28.00, which is why I said for the bargain price of almost half as much. Now do you see where I am coming from? And recently, our union told us all the nurses were getting a dollar an hour raise....imagine my suprise when none of the 3 LPN's working here received one. Administration was shocked that we were upset. It's the fact that we aren't appreciated as nurses also that hurts us. The fact that people outside of nursing do not see us as nurses and that we are expendable.