Ever had a family overdramatic with dying patient?

mkaszukgirl · Jul 21, 2005

This has happened to me on more than one occasion and it usually was another ethnic group with different culture. I have seen the exact same spectacle, and I was like,"what in the world?" They screamed and hollered and carried on like nothing I had ever seen before, then as quick as it came, it was gone. Went from hysteria, to "Ok, who has the insurance policy?" Melinda:uhoh3:

jansailsea · Jul 21, 2005

I understand there actually are cultural differences on how grief is handled or expressed. I just wish the cultures that like to flamboyantly or loudly express their grief, would CLOSE THE DADGUM DOOR so the rest of us who do find it offensive, don't have to be inflicted with it.

Now, I understand there may be times where someone behaves unusually due to severe shock, but I do think that is a small percentage.

It's like when your kid throws a tantrum in a store...you pick them up, carry them out to the car & you leave! Because you do not have the right to impose your screaming, misbehaving kid on others. It's respect & consideration of others.

I have left a grocery store with a cart full of groceries in the aisle, apologizing to the staff on my way out & telling them where I left the cart, holding on to my bucking screaming 3 year old (who's now a mature 25 yr. old).

He learned not to throw tantrums, & not because I beat him. He learned because I took away his AUDIENCE & put him in his room ALL BY HIMSELF.

Yes, it inconvenienced me & I had to wait until my hubby was home & our child was asleep to go back & do the shopping- making it a long day for me.

However, I would take money on the fact that the shoppers who were present when my son threw his fit were grateful to me for scooping him up & leaving so they didn't have to endure his shrieking.

Toe-may-toe, Toe-mah-toe - yes we are all different. That doesn't mean you have carte blanche to behave any way you please without regard to how it affects or imposes upon others.

Your grief is Your grief. I don't have to share it. I just have to respect your way of expressing it as long as you respect my desire not to partake in it.

leslie :-D · Jul 21, 2005

I understand there actually are cultural differences on how grief is handled or expressed. I just wish the cultures that like to flamboyantly or loudly express their grief, would CLOSE THE DADGUM DOOR so the rest of us who do find it offensive, don't have to be inflicted with it.
Now, I understand there may be times where someone behaves unusually due to severe shock, but I do think that is a small percentage.
It's like when your kid throws a tantrum in a store...you pick them up, carry them out to the car & you leave! Because you do not have the right to impose your screaming, misbehaving kid on others. It's respect & consideration of others.
I have left a grocery store with a cart full of groceries in the aisle, apologizing to the staff on my way out & telling them where I left the cart, holding on to my bucking screaming 3 year old (who's now a mature 25 yr. old).
He learned not to throw tantrums, & not because I beat him. He learned because I took away his AUDIENCE & put him in his room ALL BY HIMSELF.
Yes, it inconvenienced me & I had to wait until my hubby was home & our child was asleep to go back & do the shopping- making it a long day for me.
However, I would take money on the fact that the shoppers who were present when my son threw his fit were grateful to me for scooping him up & leaving so they didn't have to endure his shrieking.
Toe-may-toe, Toe-mah-toe - yes we are all different. That doesn't mean you have carte blanche to behave any way you please without regard to how it affects or imposes upon others.
Your grief is Your grief. I don't have to share it. I just have to respect your way of expressing it as long as you respect my desire not to partake in it.

whoa, whoa, whoa!!!

since when can you compare a child's tantrum to a personal grieving process? yes, a tantrum does require interventions but loud, vocal grieving is nevertheless grieving and should be treated with the respect & consideration it deserves.

as has been stated, people manifest their grief in a multitude of ways- there is no right or wrong way to do so. trying to comfort a grieving person/family is probably the most appropriate intervention; and maybe closing the door as to not disturb the other pts. but it is not something to be judged or condemned. there is absolutely no room for such harshness as i wouldn't want to be judged if i lost my child, parent, family member- God knows i've been through it already, as many of us have. i went totally nuts when i lost my 6 yo dtr- NUTS! i wasn't even thinking of others' perspectives. it was gutteral, visceral and deeply, deeply heartfelt- my grief. dang, now we're going to start classes in training people on how to grieve? good grief.

leslie

pricklypear · Jul 21, 2005

Why would anybody be offended by someone's loud expression of grief?? I have been fortunate not to have been in that situation myself, but I can tell you now that I won't give a rat's a** about how anybody else feels about my grief. It's inappropriate to compare grief (of ANY kind) with a child's tantrum.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2005

Why would anybody be offended by someone's loud expression of grief?? I have been fortunate not to have been in that situation myself, but I can tell you now that I won't give a rat's a** about how anybody else feels about my grief. It's inappropriate to compare grief (of ANY kind) with a child's tantrum.

I've seen that type of grieving and it does look just like a tantrum. No other way to describe it. I remember a teen couple who lost an infant. It was very sad, but their reactions were bizarre. For about an hour they kept throwing themselves on the floor in the nursery, then in their room, in the hallway. They were retching all over the place, wailing at the tops of their lungs... brought the dad to the ER as he needed to be sedated, it was so bad. At one point we were placing our bodies over theirs so they would not harm themselves with all the thrashing. There may have been some guilt as they were young parents and not real responsible. I'm not saying there is a correct way to grieve, but once you witness grief such as this, I don't think there is much else way to describe what it looks like, other than a tantrum.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jul 21, 2005

NOt to sound too crude on my first posting or anything; but I like to refer to that kind of a reaction as: "Status Dramaticus" :chuckle

Uh, gee, that is pretty crude. Do you mind if I use it, too?

Like others, I was bothered by the family's apparent indifference, earlier, followed by the big show. But I wasn't there, and I wasn't them, and after thinking about it maybe that was their only way of coping. Maybe they were in denial, or just couldn't face it, or were having trouble getting the kids to bed, or whatever. It's not for me to judge.

When my father had his CABG, his nurse practically insisted that I tell him I loved him before he went to the OR. What I told him was, "See you in a bit, Dad." My dad knows I love him, and I wasn't going to say anything like good-bye. I told him I loved him in recovery. I understood the nurse's reasoning, but it wasn't how we do things.

Jane, I think your reaction is entirely understandable, but I hope you'll take some comfort in the fact that you were there when your patient needed you. And isn't that about all we ever really can do?

christel · Jul 21, 2005

I agree, i took a Sociology class about the Family last semester and i also learned that back in the day people use to display loudly about a loved one who passed and it could drag on up to a year (mourning process). It wasn't cultural, it was just how people did things, they could be the same way....

vickster · Jul 21, 2005

I have been a rn for almost 9 years, i have always worked cardiac and seen alot of codes and my share of dying patients. I know all people respond to death differently and i try not to judge people but last night experienced something so bizarre.
We had a patient that was infarcting since saturday, she refused intubation and made herself a dnr but will allow chemical code. Our cardiologist told her she needed a heart cath to determine the damage, totally refused everything. Family from everywhere came, even as far from tennesee was there yesterday, they were aware of her decision and how the doctors felt.
At one time i swear there were 20 people in the room and more filling up the waiting room. They left about 5pm and i told them one or two may stay with the patient if she liked them to, they left saying to call if she needed them. About 830pm patient was having hallucinations, confusion, o2 sat at 95% on 2liters. I told respiratory to give her a treatment that was due. She was crying for her family to come. I called her son, asked them to come in to stay perhaps for a few hours. They were reluctant, and said the son would come to stay for a hour or so...They lived 5 minutes away, he never showed.
At 1005 patient went into vent tachcardia and after all means to resucitate patient allowed per protocol patient went into v-fib and asystole. One of the nurses called the family and told them of a perhaps lethal arrythmia happening to the patient, they said fix the arrythmia and call them in the morning. When the family was made aware by the cardiologist she was gone, they all came in and was screaming, throwing thmselves on the bed
I cried all the way home, i know as a nurse we did everything we could legally allowed to us. Why do i feel so bad?

Yikes. I guess you feel bad because you have a soul, and you watched a woman die without her nutty family by her side?? Not sure about that one, I'm shaking my head...hmmm. Maybe they were in denial about how sick she was before she died?? But it sounds well communicated. Maybe you cried because you were so flippin' creaped out you didn't know what else to do!!

begalli · Jul 21, 2005

I would hate to think what the staff at the ED thought of my sister-in-law less than 3 weeks ago as she wailed over the sudden and tragic death of her 16 year old son throwing herself on his lifeless body that laid still and bloodied on an ED guerney. After reading some of the responses in this thread, I wonder now what the staff thought of her kissing his feet and legs and begging God to send him back.

I also wonder what some people would think about my nephew's grandma screaming loudly upon her first viewing of my nephew's body at the funeral home: "How could he do this to us?" "How could he hurt us so bad?!?"

What's worse? The intense and debilitating display of grief suffered by my brother and his wife in the ED? Or was it the party atmosphere of the ED staff right outside their room? :angryfire

HOW DARE anyone sit in judgement anyone else's grief. Until you've been there, until you experience FIRST HAND a grief that has no word in a human dictionary to describe it, I beg you all to please accept people's reactions and coping mechanisms no matter who has passed away and no matter what it looks like.

Reactions to the OP in this thread are especially disturbing given the fact that we are the very professionals that those in a death/dying situation look to for normalizing feelings and behaviors. There is no right or wrong, acceptable or offensive. What they are is what they are.

Please, those who stand in judgement (and you may not think you are, but you are) of the family that is the subject of this thread, educate yourselves not only for the benefit of your patients and their families, but for a greater understanding of the grieving process for yourself, your loved ones, and your friends who may one day need that understanding.

God knows i've been through it already, as many of us have. i went totally nuts when i lost my 6 yo dtr- NUTS! i wasn't even thinking of others' perspectives. it was gutteral, visceral and deeply, deeply heartfelt- my grief.
leslie

Leslie, you dear, sweet woman. I don't know if you've ever mentioned the passing of your daughter before, but if you have, I missed it. I am deeply sorry for what has undoubtedly changed your life forever. And I want to acknowledge the grief you still suffer and will suffer for the rest of your life.

Have you ever heard of The Compassionate Friends? I contacted a representative of this organization a couple of days following the death of my nephew and hopefully my sister-in-law will attend her first meeting tonight. They are wonderful (I cannot express this enough), wonderful people.

michelleicu · Jul 21, 2005

yeah okay,when she was on her last breath and her son didn't show.a bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.people react to death differently,I see it as going to a better place of no pain.heaven.

Altra, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2005

whoa, whoa, whoa!!!
since when can you compare a child's tantrum to a personal grieving process? yes, a tantrum does require interventions but loud, vocal grieving is nevertheless grieving and should be treated with the respect & consideration it deserves.
as has been stated, people manifest their grief in a multitude of ways- there is no right or wrong way to do so. trying to comfort a grieving person/family is probably the most appropriate intervention; and maybe closing the door as to not disturb the other pts. but it is not something to be judged or condemned. there is absolutely no room for such harshness as i wouldn't want to be judged if i lost my child, parent, family member- God knows i've been through it already, as many of us have. i went totally nuts when i lost my 6 yo dtr- NUTS! i wasn't even thinking of others' perspectives. it was gutteral, visceral and deeply, deeply heartfelt- my grief. dang, now we're going to start classes in training people on how to grieve? good grief.
leslie

Agree. I have experienced the loss of someone very dear to me this week. I have at times cried loudly, sobbed, pounded my fist on the table, and thrown things (not at anyone). I am normally quite calm, and people often comment on how quiet I am. This is not my typical behavior, but it is my behavior at the moment. Judge me as out of control if you must - my grief is mine. The fact that the death was not wholly unexpected does not lessen my pain.

vickster · Jul 21, 2005

I would hate to think what the staff at the ED thought of my sister-in-law less than 3 weeks ago as she wailed over the sudden and tragic death of her 16 year old son throwing herself on his lifeless body that laid still and bloodied on an ED guerney. After reading some of the responses in this thread, I wonder now what the staff thought of her kissing his feet and legs and begging God to send him back.
I also wonder what some people would think about my nephew's grandma screaming loudly upon her first viewing of my nephew's body at the funeral home: "How could he do this to us?" "How could he hurt us so bad?!?"
What's worse? The intense and debilitating display of grief suffered by my brother and his wife in the ED? Or was it the party atmosphere of the ED staff right outside their room? :angryfire
HOW DARE anyone sit in judgement anyone else's grief. Until you've been there, until you experience FIRST HAND a grief that has no word in a human dictionary to describe it, I beg you all to please accept people's reactions and coping mechanisms no matter who has passed away and no matter what it looks like.
Reactions to the OP in this thread are especially disturbing given the fact that we are the very professionals that those in a death/dying situation look to for normalizing feelings and behaviors. There is no right or wrong, acceptable or offensive. What they are is what they are.
Please, those who stand in judgement (and you may not think you are, but you are) of the family that is the subject of this thread, educate yourselves not only for the benefit of your patients and their families, but for a greater understanding of the grieving process for yourself, your loved ones, and your friends who may one day need that understanding.
Leslie, you dear, sweet woman. I don't know if you've ever mentioned the passing of your daughter before, but if you have, I missed it. I am deeply sorry for what has undoubtedly changed your life forever. And I want to acknowledge the grief you still suffer and will suffer for the rest of your life.
Have you ever heard of The Compassionate Friends? I contacted a representative of this organization a couple of days following the death of my nephew and hopefully my sister-in-law will attend her first meeting tonight. They are wonderful (I cannot express this enough), wonderful people.

I think wht most of "us" mean to express is the frustration at a family that could not express their love to a woman as she lay dying, or even just sit quietly with her...she was alone-with her nurses. Nurses that are HUMAN, by the way, not devine entities of peace and healing sent from the heavens. Humans, that are allowed to be frustrated, ticked-off, uncomfortable or creeped out-if that's how THEY feel.

That was a bad, inflammed situation, let's try to understand what everyone was feeling.