Euthanasia is a very touchy subject, especially within the medical field. As a healthcare advocate, it is our job as professionals to better the lives of our patients. What happens when there is nothing more you can do?
I understand, being a Home Health Aide that works a lot with Hospice, that comfort care is important. But truly, when a suffering patient looks to you to ease the pain what do you do? Should you apologize and say their is nothing more I can do?
I can hardly say no more treats to my cat when he gives puppy dog eyes, much less a patient dying alone of cancer. In my opinion, for what it is worth, Euthanasia is most certainly not murder and should never be referred to as such.
If Euthanasia was legal, but very strict in regulations and rules, it would be very beneficial to many terminally ill patients. This may be the only healthcare decision a patient makes within their life, and they should be allowed to make such a decision when conditions permit. We all have choices in this world, what gives you or I the right to take such choices away from someone in such a situation.
What is your opinion? Do you agree or disagree? Do you have a story, personal or not that pertains to this topic?
LOL, you people are funny in your reactions (I've been laughing at this stuff the entire time, though a lot of the 'jokes' were aimed at my posts).
And that is why people can be "reported to the board of nursing" for not being "psychologically able to do their job"? That's why they lose their firearm rights, why there are "check boxes" on police logs to commit people, ect?
That's why people can get kicked out of school for it also, bc of random strangers who have opinions like Stars in my Eyes? Strangers who can call 911 and require evaluations? Counselors, ect, just about anybody but your Best Friend Forever or true friends? Your job CAN be prevented, and a lot of people in those wards involuntarily HAVE been to jail before and are homeless (if they don't then get evicted from inability to pay bills while there). Til the 80's, 20-50 states required people to get jailtime, instead of involuntary holds.
Also, people are stigmatized by fearful people.
What isn't clear? Euthanasia is both homicide and suicide, yet, it doesn't get classified under the same parts as other MI. Euthanasia is a felony in 48 states for a reason.
Literally not one single part of this post is true. Not one.
Eta: A certain Billy Madison clip keeps circling my brain. *sigh*
Literally not one single part of this post is true. Not one.
Eta: A certain Billy Madison clip keeps circling my brain. *sigh*
I really think his/her point about euthanasia and assisted suicide being the same as what happens to mentally ill people should be completely disconnected.
I'm against euthanasia and assisted suicide . . . . but it has nothing to do with how the mentally ill are treated.
There is no link, association, connection, intersection, coupling, relationship, articulation, etc.
I really think his/her point about euthanasia and assisted suicide being the same as what happens to mentally ill people should be completely disconnected.
I'm against euthanasia and assisted suicide . . . . but it has nothing to do with how the mentally ill are treated.
There is no link, association, connection, intersection, coupling, relationship, articulation, etc.
Agreed.
Perhaps this conversation can slightly be diverted back to being slightly on track by reiterating the point of it.
Assisted suicide is:
(1) a patient is terminally ill
(2) they are of sound mind and judgment
(3) they are capable of making informed decisions on their own behalf
(4) they request the ability to have a healthcare professional terminate their lives via medications, usually to avoid prolonging pain, suffering and the accumulation of debt and hardship for their family
(5) the healthcare provider agrees to assist the patient in ending their own life
(6) the healthcare provider and patient follow through with the assisted suicide as planned
This thread poses the question:
Is the above scenario murder, or mercy?
If mental illness were to be considered relevant to the conversation, it might make a person not be qualified to engage in the assisted suicide "contract" because they may not be of sound mind and judgment, capable of deciding on their own behalf. That is the only way that mental illness would relate to this conversation, in my opinion.
It would be nice to see the conversation get back on topic. I've enjoyed learning from the perspectives of others, and I do believe there could be a time in all of our careers when this ethical debate could be more than just a debate, but something we see in practice. I believe increasing understanding of others' perspectives here can make us better at respecting them when we hear them face to face.
Okey dokey. I too have appreciated the sharing of perspectives from others here on AN in regards to this question.
I'm a member of the organization listed below and have been to their conference once. They are headquartered in California.
I found the page where it outlines the reasoning behind being against assisted suicide. I've previously linked an article or two from members of the organization.
Why the CBC Opposes Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia
The drive to legalize assisted suicide and euthanasia presents a profound challenge to the integrity of medical ethics and the sanctity/equality of human life. As a consequence, the CBC believes that legalizing mercy killing and suicide assistance by doctors (or anyone else) would corrupt medicine, undermine the viability of suicide prevention efforts by sending a mixed societal message, and threaten the lives and equal societal status of the weakest and most vulnerable among us.
This conclusion isn't conjectural. The history of the last forty years shows unequivocally that a society which permits or legalizes euthanasia and assisted suicide for the few, embarks on a path leading inexorably to permissive mercy killing of the many. For example, in the Netherlands, not only may the terminally ill be euthanized on request, but so also may people with serious chronic illnesses and serious disabilities. Strong political advocacy now exists there to permit senior citizens who are tired of life†to receive suicide as the remedy.
Worse, according to several government studies, hundreds of patients who haven't asked for euthanasia are lethally injected or intentionally overdosed with pain medication each year by Dutch doctors. A Dutch Supreme Court ruled that a psychiatrist, who assisted the suicide of a woman in grief over her dead children, had not acted wrongly because suffering is suffering, and it doesn't matter whether it is physical or emotional. The Groningen Protocol,†an infanticide checklist, has been published by doctors who admit euthanizing dying and disabled infants, and even though such killings are murder under Dutch law, nothing is done about it.....
And you don't even seem to know how UNclear you are in your 'explanations.'
Keep laughing, child, it's better than crying.
I think your intentions with your posts is to "get under my skin."
That's clear enough from the first one saying you needed to go around TOS in reply to me, choosing to nitpick "ect" abbreviations. ECT can also stand for electro-convulsive shock. You seem not be bold enough to directly name-call, just hide snide remarks behind thinly-veiled TOS insults.
I don't think I'd want to know you in Real Life.
And frankly, your nastiness seems strong enough that you might want to report to BON for "psychologically being unable to do the job" with some "anonymous call" (yes, people can be that nasty, so watch out) so I'm also glad this is an anonymous forum, without enough personal-info out there for you to do so.
[h=1]'Bleak picture' for mentally ill: 80% are jobless[/h]"In a 2006 survey, 62% of Americans said they were unwilling to work with someone with schizophrenia...
Diane Volpe says her sister, a survivor of a violent crime, was fired from her job as medical technician after she began to show signs of bipolar disorder. "They never gave her the option of medical leave or short-term disability"..
"half of U.S. employers are reluctant to hire someone with a past psychiatric history or currently undergoing treatment for depression. "
Yes, it is like having a dirty dark secret and hiding like a criminal record. Plus, once there's a history, they'll want to "lock you up again."
And apparently, in Swizerland and Belgium, per the CBC article, they're doing euthanasia on people labeled "mentally ill" also. So "suffering" or "terminal illness" can apply to MI too in those countries. Get Killed or do 'Ide for any reason, bc almightly healthcare worker, officer, ect, says so... you are disabled. Ugh. Just disgusting.
Think of this: suicide and basically having mental illness is illegal...Attempting suicide is illegal or even THINKING about it (having thoughts) is illegal, so is being labeled with a mental illness, police can put them involuntarily into psych wards and commit them, restrain them.
This post, way back, is where we differ and think you are wrong.
I think your intentions with your posts is to "get under my skin."
That's clear enough from the first one saying you needed to go around TOS in reply to me, choosing to nitpick "ect" abbreviations. ECT can also stand for electro-convulsive shock. You seem not be bold enough to directly name-call, just hide snide remarks behind thinly-veiled TOS insults.
I don't think I'd want to know you in Real Life.
And frankly, your nastiness seems strong enough that you might want to report to BON for "psychologically being unable to do the job" with some "anonymous call" (yes, people can be that nasty, so watch out) so I'm also glad this is an anonymous forum, without enough personal-info out there for you to do so.
"In a 2006 survey, 62% of Americans said they were unwilling to work with someone with schizophrenia...
Diane Volpe says her sister, a survivor of a violent crime, was fired from her job as medical technician after she began to show signs of bipolar disorder. "They never gave her the option of medical leave or short-term disability"..
"half of U.S. employers are reluctant to hire someone with a past psychiatric history or currently undergoing treatment for depression. "
Yes, it is like having a dirty dark secret and hiding like a criminal record. Plus, once there's a history, they'll want to "lock you up again."
And apparently, in Swizerland and Belgium, per the CBC article, they're doing euthanasia on people labeled "mentally ill" also. So "suffering" or "terminal illness" can apply to MI too in those countries. Get Killed or do 'Ide for any reason, bc almightly healthcare worker, officer, ect, says so... you are disabled. Ugh. Just disgusting.
Okay. A few thoughts:
It's not as easy to make someone lose their nursing license as you seem to think. Plus, you are not a nurse, so how could anyone report you to the BON for anything?
I agree that discrimination against the mentally ill is rampant. But I do not understand what that has to do with euthanasia. You keep intertwining the two topics, and I am at a complete loss as to what the connection is.
Why are you still using "ect" for et cetera? And 'ide for suicide is just bizarre. Making up your own abbreviations and acronyms all willy-nilly creates a major communication barrier. And it's downright dangerous if you do this as a nurse. MI= Myocardial Infarction, not Mentally Ill.
Your last paragraph is mystifying. No idea at all what you're talking about.
There were several definitions and misinterpretations made a couple of pages ago that I disagree with, but I'm all with trying to get the thread back on track because the original topic is fascinating enough all on its own.
I happen to live in a state where assisted suicide "death with dignity" is legal under specified criteria. A complex and intriguing issue, in my opinion; I've heard strong arguments on both sides of the debate. Taking my ethics classes at a Jesuit school was interesting; about as conservative as it gets. (nothing wrong with that). What I particularly enjoyed was that both sides of the common issues were given equal time and presented in an unbiased fashion, which made the class enjoyable and allowed for a lot of critical thought and introspection.
Way back in the 80s, I was a hospice volunteer working exclusively with AIDS patients. It really, really informed my nursing practice (now that I'm finally a nurse). I personally feel that people should have the most dignified death possible, and I'm so thankful for hospice and palliative care teams who strive to make this a reality. While I have some conflicted thoughts on the ethics of assisted suicide, I do feel that my time at hospice and then later supporting families who were dealing with extreme prematurity or terminally ill newborns has made it easier for me to advocate for my patients now. Each situation is unique and complex. I'm passionately interested in both neonatal medical ethics and the importance of perinatal palliative care, when indicated. I've really enjoyed reading many of the posts in this thread; it's always interesting to read others' take on the issues.
I agree that discrimination against the mentally ill is rampant. But I do not understand what that has to do with euthanasia. You keep intertwining the two topics, and I am at a complete loss as to what the connection is.
That's what I was trying to say. The intertwining of the two topics is the point.
Your last paragraph is mystifying. No idea at all what you're talking about.
That last paragraph is related to a link I posted. Still, intertwining though . . . . .
SunriseDay, it appears that mental illness and how the mentally ill are treated are subjects you feel passionate about. I can totally respect that.
The mentally ill are most definitely treated as second class citizens in our society. We trap them in a vicious cycle. Discrimination against them makes gainful employment almost impossible, and then we stigmatize them for being on welfare. We treat them more like children than adults, and then stigmatize them for being in a sate of arrested development. All issues that should be addressed.
But your apparent connection between the discrimination against the mentally ill and euthanasia is based on misunderstandings. You seem to think that clinicians who work in hospice or who honor DNR directives are guilty of homicidal thought processes that would land non-medical people in a facility, and the only reason such people aren't institutionalized is because they are part of the system. Untrue.
First, DNR code status, palliative care and hospice care are NOT forms of euthanasia. Nor are they forms of assisted suicide. DNR is a choice made by the patient or by his legal advocate. Hospice care consists of caring for patients during the dying process, it's not deciding "okay, it's time for them to die". I can't stress that enough. There is no homicidal thought process involved, nor is it assisting the patient in committing suicide.
I too have appreciated the sharing of perspectives from others here on AN in regards to this question.
ixchel
4,547 Posts
Literally not one single part of this post is true. Not one.
Eta: A certain Billy Madison clip keeps circling my brain. *sigh*