Euthanasia is a very touchy subject, especially within the medical field. As a healthcare advocate, it is our job as professionals to better the lives of our patients. What happens when there is nothing more you can do?
I understand, being a Home Health Aide that works a lot with Hospice, that comfort care is important. But truly, when a suffering patient looks to you to ease the pain what do you do? Should you apologize and say their is nothing more I can do?
I can hardly say no more treats to my cat when he gives puppy dog eyes, much less a patient dying alone of cancer. In my opinion, for what it is worth, Euthanasia is most certainly not murder and should never be referred to as such.
If Euthanasia was legal, but very strict in regulations and rules, it would be very beneficial to many terminally ill patients. This may be the only healthcare decision a patient makes within their life, and they should be allowed to make such a decision when conditions permit. We all have choices in this world, what gives you or I the right to take such choices away from someone in such a situation.
What is your opinion? Do you agree or disagree? Do you have a story, personal or not that pertains to this topic?
The reason suicidal ideation was brought up is because the poster was saying a page or two back that if suicide attempts or ideation are illegal, then PAS and DNR and basically allowing a person to die without actively trying to prevent it should be considered wrong/illegal as well.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
Oops, got on a tangent there....
The reason suicidal ideation was brought up is because the poster was saying a page or two back that if suicide attempts or ideation are illegal, then PAS and DNR and basically allowing a person to die without actively trying to prevent it should be considered wrong/illegal as well.
It IS illegal to have mental illness or ideations. Medications/drugs, involuntary hospitalizations, ect, are punishments for that.
And what ixchel said isn't true at all. IDK what state you are in, but it's not 2 physicians in others. When the ambulance picks a person up, they are restrained and can be put into a "spit mask." And people don't even have to be suicidal for it to happen, they can be any MI diagnosis. They especially don't like it when you drive your own car... and especially when people call 911 just for you being in a car wreck or at somebody's door. It can also be if you are paranoid (which I am NOT Ron Ponzar, that's some paranoia here or some conspiracy) and say you are followed, poisoned, ect. So not even have ideations. It's just many people who have suicidal thoughts or wants ARE put into places.
And police don't "scurry off to get court orders." They have a police log where they check off "danger to self or others" based off what a person says, and then the person goes in an ambulance or their police cars. No "court order" there. Police are less likely to do it if there is no ambulance called or 911 call, but they can still send people to a hospital where then they can be involuntary inpatient, also, if they don't write down, check off they should go there in their logs. People can be held in an ER facility for 72 hrs without ANY court order or court evaluator. After that, they have to sign petitions for court.
It's not a misdemeanor or a felony conviction, or a true jailhouse, but it basically is a lower form of punishment/being locked up by police or others.
I did not say people who follow the DNR rule should go to a ward. They are obviously required to follow that law, as they would if euthanasia or assisted suicide was the law. Even though obviously suicide is illegal.
I see euthanasia and assisted suicide as a way to make it "legal" for healthcare providers and their patients to have suicide legal.
However, police and others will still consider it illegal including mental illness, which can lead to a person losing their firearm rights, ect, due to involuntary commitment and a messed up record. They can lose their jobs, school, ect (if they had them before going in there). Psych wards are expanding over the country and people are involuntarily committed by police and others all of the time... a lower form of "jail" and "lower form of crime."
People who partake in euthanasia and assisted suicide are having the same ideations... it's just being "defined" differently bc it's healthcare workers vs normal public vs police officers.
Please take some time to educate yourself. Laws will vary state to state, but I imagine patient rights generally are similar regardless of where you are.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
SunriseDay,
There is something seriously skewed, scary and wrong with your post.
I am very concerned about you.
But, I am so flabbergasted, I have no idea how to approach you.
You sound like a PTSD'er who needs to be talked down from a dangerous place.
I would really like to see you seek some help, but given your extreme distrust issues with authority figures, I don't know who that might be that would be able to help you without triggering more such responses.
Sunrise, I see from your profile and some of your other posts that you have not yet been accepted to nursing school, yet feel "stuck" with nursing due to the pre requisites that you have completed. Please rest assured that there are many other careers where you can use your pre-reqs that are away from the bedside, including something like a medical laboratory scientist. If your posts here truly reflect your feelings about nursing, the ethics of autonomy and self-determination, end of life, and the mental health care system, I would strongly encourage you to seek a role away from the bedside. Psychiatric concerns and medical ethics permeate all specialty areas of nursing, including the two specialties you mentioned in your earlier post: OB and OR. How would you council, for example, a pregnant woman with psychiatric concerns who required medication or who had severe postpartum depression with psychosis following delivery?
I have spent more than 15 years of my life working with the acutely/critically mentally ill in both outpatient and inpatient psychiatric setting, including facilities that went far beyond the average 72 hour hold when providing care. I'm sorry that you (or your friend) have had such traumatic encounters. That said, you have gone far beyond simply "disagreeing" with the posters here. I really feel that your positions on mental health and end of life ethics are not compatible with the nursing mission on a much larger scale. It is not about us and our opinions when it comes to ethical, compassionate patient care. We turn to our ethical overarching missions and put the needs and desires of the patient first. We meet them where they are, not where we think they need to be. We do not get to build out own definitions of key ethical and legal issues.
If you are truly committed to being a nurse, I would strongly, strongly urge you (beg you) to try to open your mind and do additional considerable research on nursing ethics, nursing care for those dealing with mental illness, and end of life issues. You truly owe it to your future patients to research these issues further and with an objective eye.
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
It IS illegal to have mental illness or ideations. Medications/drugs, involuntary hospitalizations, ect, are punishments for that.
However, police and others will still consider it illegal including mental illness, which can lead to a person losing their firearm rights, ect, due to involuntary commitment and a messed up record. They can lose their jobs, school, ect (if they had them before going in there). Psych wards are expanding over the country and people are involuntarily committed by police and others all of the time... a lower form of "jail" and "lower form of crime."
Wow.....just WOW.
As a mentally ill person, I am appalled at this display of ignorance regarding brain disorders. NO ONE asks for them, and we cannot be held accountable for "catching" them. In fact, it is illegal to discriminate against us in employment and other aspects of life such as renting an apartment, obtaining credit and so on.
We can, of course, be held accountable for our behaviors. But suicidal ideation isn't something that a person should be "punished" for---it's something that requires a great deal of assistance and compassion on the part of those who are dealing with the suicidal person. Yes, this sometimes requires the patient to be "locked up" in a psych ward for a time; I've had to be, and even though my own hospitalization was voluntary I really needed to be there for my safety. But it wasn't a punishment, it was a sanctuary where I could get the intensive care I needed. And I didn't do anything "illegal" to "deserve" it.
As it is, if I ever need such care again and refuse to get it, I hope I'll be fortunate enough to have someone who at least cares enough about me---even in the form of an authority figure---to make sure I get help, even if it means being taken to the hospital in the back of a police car. Although I should mention that psych wards are NOT "expanding over the country" and police officers do not get to decide who gets admitted or not. There is a terrible shortage of psychiatric beds that often force ERs to hold patients for days, waiting for a bed to open up. I've even seen patients turned away from the hospital because they only expressed suicidal thoughts, not a specific plan.
I don't normally confront members personally on this site, but SunriseDay, you have got a LOT to learn about mental illness and the people who live with it. I'm not even sure how you managed to get your wildly incorrect ideas and prejudices tangled up in a thread about euthanasia, but I don't care enough to go back and figure it out. Just know that people can't be wrapped up neat and tidy in little boxes for your convenience, and that you really need to open your mind to the fact that on this particular issue, you are very, very wrong.
Just know that people can't be wrapped up neat and tidy in little boxes for your convenience, and that you really need to open your mind to the fact that on this particular issue, you are very, very wrong.
And that, my friend, is what we call "straight from the horse's mouth."
Viva is one of the most venerable elders on this site, and she has been very open about her personal experience with mental illness. She knows what she's talking about. If you don't listen to HER, you really are a fool.
I too wondered about that comment about psych wards expanding all over the country..... It's certainly not true from anything I've seen.
LOL, you people are funny in your reactions (I've been laughing at this stuff the entire time, though a lot of the 'jokes' were aimed at my posts).
And that is why people can be "reported to the board of nursing" for not being "psychologically able to do their job"? That's why they lose their firearm rights, why there are "check boxes" on police logs to commit people, ect?
That's why people can get kicked out of school for it also, bc of random strangers who have opinions like Stars in my Eyes? Strangers who can call 911 and require evaluations? Counselors, ect, just about anybody but your Best Friend Forever or true friends? Your job CAN be prevented, and a lot of people in those wards involuntarily HAVE been to jail before and are homeless (if they don't then get evicted from inability to pay bills while there). Til the 80's, 20-50 states required people to get jailtime, instead of involuntary holds.
Also, people are stigmatized by fearful people.
What isn't clear? Euthanasia is both homicide and suicide, yet, it doesn't get classified under the same parts as other MI. Euthanasia is a felony in 48 states for a reason.
ixchel
4,547 Posts
Oops, got on a tangent there....
The reason suicidal ideation was brought up is because the poster was saying a page or two back that if suicide attempts or ideation are illegal, then PAS and DNR and basically allowing a person to die without actively trying to prevent it should be considered wrong/illegal as well.