Equal work for Equal Pay

[AAC.271]

What are your thoughts folks? As an sNP, I think if we do the exact same work we absolutely deserve the same high salary that physicians get.

Some of my peers in medical school say that education and qualifications deserve higher pay i.e. A college PH.D professor gets paid more than a masters trained high school teacher, even if they are both teaching AP biology/Intro to Biology 101.

I understand their Point of View, but I think it's unfair that just because we aren't learning as much material, but going to be dealing with many of the same cases and patients, that we do not deserve a physician's salary. Studies again and again show that NP's do an equal job if not better job than physicians at correctly diagnosing problems and treating patients. Some would argue that in a quality outcome based system, Nurse Practitioner's deserve even more pay because our results are better!!

[babyNP., APRN]

I think that if you are billing for the same exact codes that yes, you should get "equal pay." Just because someone has more schooling doesn't mean that they are worth more from a pure economic point of view, but rather what they bring to the table as far as outcomes go. DNPs don't make more than MSN NPs from billing, for example. It's all market-driven. If it's based off of pure knowledge, why does the first year attending get paid the same amount of $$ than the veteran attending with 30+ years experience? Clearly the 30 year attending knows much more than the first year.

Is this necessarily a right attitude considering the extensive education that docs have? I don't know the answer to that, but I feel that docs will be relegated more and more to specialty care where there aren't independent NPs, but rather those in collaboration with docs. As these specialties go, I don't foresee NPs getting paid the same as docs for a couple of reasons. Number one would be that there simply are far few specialty NPs versus primary care NPs not to mention even fewer those who are doing their own practice independently. Number two would be that the doctor's knowledge/care in specialties is probably superior to NPs knowledge because you start running into more and more complex issues that start bordering on science knowledge that we don't necessarily have.

[canigraduate]

I think "deserve" is the wrong word. I think I "deserve" a million dollars.

NP and MD are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT things.

You have to get over this comparing fixation.

Let's take it out of the healthcare arena. Say I want to build a house. Do I expect to pay more to an architect than I would a general contractor? Yes, I do.

Why? The architect does things the contractor can't do, has more years of school, and has more training. Does that make the architect any better than the general contractor? No.

But they are different roles and not interchangeable.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

Pardon me if this has already been said. The idea of equal pay for equal work has a basis is two people with the exact same education, working the exact same job, with the exact same experience, getting paid equally. (This is usually based on the inequality between male and female employees.)

While you may be doing the same work in the clinic, you're not equal when it comes to education (and most likely experience) and therefor, you will not be paid like a physician. In many states, NPs work under a physician.

When working in a SNF, I worked along side a dozen LVNs who for the most part did the exact same job I did. My education and license guaranteed me a higher salary. I don't find that unfair.

[OBwonKnewbie]

Life isn't fair. Had a similar discussion a couple days ago with another nurse about equal work and pay. She was prying and trying to find out my hourly rate, said we should make the same because we do the same work. I disagreed. I have been a nurse double the amount of time she has with double the amount of experiences. I have worked in multiple settings she has not worked in. I possess more skill than her. I'm also BSN trained while she is not. No way should she make what I do.

To me, it's the same thing. Don't think you are doing the exact same job as a doctor. You are not medically trained, you are still a nurse. A well trained and highly skilled nurse, but none the less still a nurse deep down.

[DeeAngel]

OP, what exactly is your agenda?

My guess is they're here just to stir the turd.

[Jules A, MSN]

The argument remains, if an NP performs the exact same evaluation and management as a physician counterpart (i.e., same level of complexity), should reimbursement be equal?

Excellent point and as you point out two totally different areas of interpretation of the OPs post. I absolutely agree NPs should bill and be reimbursed the same as physicians for the same billing code. It is absurd that the exact same assessment or procedure should be billed for less, it is the task itself not the background of the person performing the task.

However although I'm all for making as much as I can and thanks to my speciality I actually do make as much if not more than many GP physicians I do not feel I deserve comparable compensation to my psychiatrist peers who have a far superior education. Paying me less for essentially the same job based on the fact that my education is less comprehensive is where the financial value to my employers comes into play.

[Aromatic]

My guess is they're here just to stir the turd.

I like my turds shaken, not stirred.

[ChengLi]

Nurses VS Doctors=Pay?. Don't think so. Doctors spend more time in the academe and stays much longer time in residency though Nurses have more work that the Doctors. Study In UK | Education Agency | UK Study

[PG2018]

Who says our results are better?

The degree and qualifications are irrelevant. I'm ok go equal work - equal pay. Of course I want to make more money. However. I cannot lawfully do all of the things physicians can do.

I cannot admit patients to a hospital, work "independently," prescribe Schedule II drugs, order emergency holds, declare deaths (unless working in hospice), or certify disability. Additionally, physicians, regardless of specialty generally have the statutory authority to do whatever they want medicaly. They may not be employable, reimbursable, or even ethical, but comparatively we NPs are excessively circumscribed to our respective niches. Although my med check is no different than a psychiatrist med check (or eval), they have a laundry list of other qualifications.

[nurseinthezoo]

NPs don't go to medical school.

[Psychcns]

Psych guy says it well. Physicians have statuary authority to do everything medically and NP's are relegated to what our NP leaders and lobbyists have been able to get as our scope of practice and this varies state by state. My practice looks a lot like a psychiatrist and my outcomes are good. I have had very good experiences consulting with psychiatrists on difficult patients. I think this is where they are most valuable. I have worked some places where psychiatrist had responsibilities appropriate for the depth and intensity of their superior education. Other places they are doing the same job as me since patient contact is what is reimburse able. I think either our salaries will go up or theirs will come down. Also interesting to consider the future effect of the global economy. No one makes close to US physician salary.

[chacha82, ADN, BSN]

Posts like these make me want to bang my ahead against the wall (I still respond, so that's my issue). Just this week a colleague was talking about how he wants to go to CRNA school since "they just mix chemicals." Never mind he's not a nurse and had ZERO idea how competitive it is to get into CRNA school, much less how difficult the school actually is. You don't just sign up for it. They do make a large salary. I think that's the only thing he was right about.