I am a BSN student who is interested in pursuing a graduate degree in the future, probably a year after I graduate. I have read some posts and found that many here believe that an RN with that little experience has no place in Advanced Practice programs. This is where I disagree.
I believe that Nursing culture is shooting itself in the foot here, and here's my cents why. A prospective doctor does not have to leave college after a bachelors degree to gain experience in the field of biology or chemistry before going on to Med school. A prospective college professor does not have to leave college after his bachelor's degree to get experience teaching at the grade school level. So WHY do so many believe that an RN has to leave school after their bachelor's degree to gain whatever many years of experience at the clinical level before going on to grad school?
:nono:I believe that it is counterproductive for the nursing profession as a whole to discourage students who wish to complete their education (MSN or beyond) before beginning clinical or other types of practice. You would think that the sensible thing to do is get your education, and THEN get your experience. Am I the only one who feels like this?
You haven't a choice but to defend your stance because you yourself have stated that you don't have much experience.
I wouldn't see a PCP with no experience--because getting to 5 years means they are going to have to get through years 1, 2, 3 and 4.
I wouldn't want to be their guinea pig for those years.
I will say this again. Acute care or not--people are signing up to work as an ARNP because schools are making it way too easy.
They aren't doing service to patients--just their bankrolls.
That's the bottom line.
Why do you think I'm defending myself? You are assuming that I am because I have less experience than you. You are making the assumption that your experience holds weight over any argument condoning fast track NPs, and since I DO support these programs I MUST be defending my own inexperience.
I have nothing to defend. You are either unwilling or unable to hear an argument from a different position from your own. There are many RNs (but definitely not all) with many years of experience that will agree with you because they are unimaginative and cannot conceive of a different way to get from point A to point B.
The one place that I WOULD like to defend anyone who makes a choice to undertake the huge challenge of a direct entry NP program (which is very competitive and not "easy" in any regard) is your insistence that people who complete these programs came from professions that are A) not as important as nursing, and B) don't require high levels of skill. Most people in DE programs (including those with no health care background) have achieved excellency in other fields. Not because they are "meant" to be in those fields, but because they are motivated, responsible, and naturally intelligent. You can't actually succeed (or get accepted) in one of these programs with a lackadaisical attitude. So, out of respect for your future colleagues, please refrain from making that association as it is patently false.
I have been wanting to give kudos to all those who post on the fact that NP's and regular nurses - either ADN or BSN ARE different jobs. (I Couldn't find the button for some reason) A psychiatric nurse practitioner has a job much more similar to a psychiatrist than a staff RN in acute care, a nurse practitioner in women's health is more like a gynecologist than an RN in med surg, even a family, adult or pediatric nurse practitioner has a job quite similar to a general practitioner.
One CAN however, make great arguments for having prior regular nurse experience with regards to an msn in education, midwifery (being an L&D nurse), or clinical nurse specialist. but lets all be on the same page here. Sometimes experience will be necessary & frankly sometime as above it simply won't matter one iota if for example your psychiatric nurse practitioner can insert a foly.
I have been wanting to give kudos to all those who post on the fact that NP's and regular nurses - either ADN or BSN ARE different jobs. (I Couldn't find the button for some reason) A psychiatric nurse practitioner has a job much more similar to a psychiatrist than a staff RN in acute care, a nurse practitioner in women's health is more like a gynecologist than an RN in med surg, even a family, adult or pediatric nurse practitioner has a job quite similar to a general practitioner.
One CAN however, make great arguments for having prior regular nurse experience with regards to an msn in education, midwifery (being an L&D nurse), or clinical nurse specialist. but lets all be on the same page here. Sometimes experience will be necessary & frankly sometime as above it simply won't matter one iota if for example your psychiatric nurse practitioner can insert a foly.
True. That's why I was saying it depends on what kind of experience you have. I've done mostly PACU in my RN experience, so would it have made any sense for me to become a midwife? A NICU NP? In my opinion those would have been poor choices. I see the NP programs as opportunities to build on your nursing experience. So if you have ICU/ER/CCU experience, it would make sense for you to continue on and become an Acute Care NP......not a midwife.
Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.
True. That's why I was saying it depends on what kind of experience you have. I've done mostly PACU in my RN experience, so would it have made any sense for me to become a midwife? A NICU NP? In my opinion those would have been poor choices. I see the NP programs as opportunities to build on your nursing experience. So if you have ICU/ER/CCU experience, it would make sense for you to continue on and become an Acute Care NP......not a midwife.
Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.
Why do you think I'm defending myself? You are assuming that I am because I have less experience than you. You are making the assumption that your experience holds weight over any argument condoning fast track NPs, and since I DO support these programs I MUST be defending my own inexperience.
I have nothing to defend. You are either unwilling or unable to hear an argument from a different position from your own. There are many RNs (but definitely not all) with many years of experience that will agree with you because they are unimaginative and cannot conceive of a different way to get from point A to point B.
The one place that I WOULD like to defend anyone who makes a choice to undertake the huge challenge of a direct entry NP program (which is very competitive and not "easy" in any regard) is your insistence that people who complete these programs came from professions that are A) not as important as nursing, and B) don't require high levels of skill. Most people in DE programs (including those with no health care background) have achieved excellency in other fields. Not because they are "meant" to be in those fields, but because they are motivated, responsible, and naturally intelligent. You can't actually succeed (or get accepted) in one of these programs with a lackadaisical attitude. So, out of respect for your future colleagues, please refrain from making that association as it is patently false.
If you are saying that these pathways require the IQ of a Mensan--that's not an argument I would even take on. THAT'S not the case I am making.
I still cannot, no matter what specialty the person is in (non acute, etc.,)--a LACK of exposure to the medical environment with a thrust into the arena "just because" they have an MSN---WITHOUT STANDARDIZED practice is compromising patients. That needs to change.
You can say all that you want. You can dismiss what I say. You can vocalize/verbalize/insinuate that "acute care" experience is not really necessary in certain specialties. I STILL WOULDN'T want someone who was a desk computer engineer or someone with a Master's in Library Science order an antidepressant/Baker Act/etc., someone because he/she is "schooled". Acute care, or non-acute care. It is irrelevant.
I have a prof friend who heads the Environment Sciences department in a university here. A big one. He has a PhD. I have another who heads the Math Department in another university here. He's the chair. And yes, he's got a PhD.
They wouldn't even think they would try to go directly into a position of diagnostician/healer without having some opportunities to be directly involved in a healthcare capacity--but NOT just in "school." But REAL LIFE. RESIDENCY. Yes, RESIDENCY.
GIVE ME A BREAK. Seriously, no, this isn't disrespecting anyone's intelligentsia.
I worked with a nurse practitioner from a direct entry program - got her BSN - then MSN in nurse practitioning straight thru - she's an excellent practitioner who has never worked on a med surg unit, nursing home, etc - she never inserted a foley catherter or cleaned a bedpan & she never will have to either. This is not something to criticize - it is what it is - I know people want to feel that all of their acute care/med surg/ICU nursing experience make them better suited as nurse practitioners - but it doesn't - it makes one a better ICU/med surg/acute carenurse - period.
They wouldn't even think they would try to go directly into a position of diagnostician/healer without having some opportunities to be directly involved in a healthcare capacity--but NOT just in "school." But REAL LIFE. RESIDENCY. Yes, RESIDENCY.
P-E-R-I-O-D.
Residency, yes. In the environment in which you will be practicing. Ideally in the capacity of an NP. I wish that residency programs were standard for NP education.
Healthcare capacity though? Not necessarily. I don't think someone with nursing, PCA, pharmacy, PT or OT experience will necessarily be more qualified to take on a new grad NP role than someone who graduated from the same program but started with a desk job. It can't hurt, and MAY be helpful, but random healthcare exposure does not a qualified ANP make. Exposure to the role you will be assuming and in a similar environment (ie, clinical placements) is more important than work experience.
I am a BSN student who is interested in pursuing a graduate degree in the future, probably a year after I graduate. I have read some posts and found that many here believe that an RN with that little experience has no place in Advanced Practice programs. This is where I disagree.
I believe that Nursing culture is shooting itself in the foot here, and here's my cents why. A prospective doctor does not have to leave college after a bachelors degree to gain experience in the field of biology or chemistry before going on to Med school. A prospective college professor does not have to leave college after his bachelor's degree to get experience teaching at the grade school level. So WHY do so many believe that an RN has to leave school after their bachelor's degree to gain whatever many years of experience at the clinical level before going on to grad school?
:nono:I believe that it is counterproductive for the nursing profession as a whole to discourage students who wish to complete their education (MSN or beyond) before beginning clinical or other types of practice. You would think that the sensible thing to do is get your education, and THEN get your experience. Am I the only one who feels like this?
BUT for many masters programs they wont accept you without experience. My husband did his MBA and he needed 2 years minimum of experience.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I guess the definition of a Nurse Practitioner has changed since it's inception then. Originally it meant an experienced NURSE expanded on the role of a NURSE. That means a different perspective. You can all disagree with that, but it doesn't matter. They should call it something else if the training so resembles a PA or med-school model.
Look, I don't think the issue is really education vs experience. Fact is nursing requires both theory and hands on practice, so both are very important.
I will say that I think experience in any capacity is helpful....how helpful....well that depends.
It depends a lot on the person as well. I know some NP's who I think are horrible at their jobs, not because they are theoretically incompetent but because they aren't used to the healthcare environment. They aren't used to having something bad happen to a patient, then having to "get over it" and move on and help the next patient. They aren't used to medical hierarchial politics. They aren't used to being pulled in several different directions at once. These are all skills that experience, not education, can teach you.
There are other NP's however who went straight through without getting experience who are perfectly fine, who don't need the transition.
Look, many people state that "everyone should work a year of med-surg before transitioning somewhere else to get a stronger foundation in nursing skill set." Well that's a generalization...some people do just fine without the year of med-surg experience, but for others it proved invaluable. So it just depends.
They aren't used to being pulled in several different directions at once.
THIS hits a nerve. I definitely wasn't used to this prior to my time in med-surg. Many people face this in other occupations and transition better. Me personally--I never had this issue in my former job. I'm glad I've experienced this before starting out as an NP.
I have been wanting to give kudos to all those who post on the fact that NP's and regular nurses - either ADN or BSN ARE different jobs. (I Couldn't find the button for some reason) A psychiatric nurse practitioner has a job much more similar to a psychiatrist than a staff RN in acute care, a nurse practitioner in women's health is more like a gynecologist than an RN in med surg, even a family, adult or pediatric nurse practitioner has a job quite similar to a general practitioner.
If nursing experience isn't critical to one's practice as an mid-level provider NP then I wonder if mid-level roles are actually *nursing* roles? Or is it that mid-level providers is a medical role that someone who's completed an NP or PA program happen to be qualified for? NPs are likely to bring a more holistic perspective to the table and some employers may prefer that, but functionally, in many cases, an NP or a PA is qualified to fill the mid-level role.
If relevant clinical experience as an RN isn't necessary to become a mid-level provider NP, then what does the RN education really provide for the future NP? The bulk of RN education seems geared towards specifically to acute care bedside nursing. Up to 90% of stduent clinical experiences are likely to be in acute care settings. But this focus on acute care nursing also means that for future public health nurses, occupational health nurses, clinic nurses etc that only a fraction of the RN education addresses their roles. Then again, many will also argue that newbies ought to get bedside experience before taking on such roles.
And outside of tradition, why should becoming an NP require having earned an RN license and BSN degree? Why not just require the relevant courses from those programs and a bachelors degree in any field?
cents why. A prospective doctor does not have to leave college after a bachelors degree to gain experience in the field of biology or chemistry before going on to Med school. A prospective college professor does not have to leave college after his bachelor's degree to get experience teaching at the grade school level. So WHY do so many believe that an RN has to leave school after their bachelor's degree to gain whatever many years of experience at the clinical level before going on to grad school?
kanzi monkey
618 Posts
Why do you think I'm defending myself? You are assuming that I am because I have less experience than you. You are making the assumption that your experience holds weight over any argument condoning fast track NPs, and since I DO support these programs I MUST be defending my own inexperience.
I have nothing to defend. You are either unwilling or unable to hear an argument from a different position from your own. There are many RNs (but definitely not all) with many years of experience that will agree with you because they are unimaginative and cannot conceive of a different way to get from point A to point B.
The one place that I WOULD like to defend anyone who makes a choice to undertake the huge challenge of a direct entry NP program (which is very competitive and not "easy" in any regard) is your insistence that people who complete these programs came from professions that are A) not as important as nursing, and B) don't require high levels of skill. Most people in DE programs (including those with no health care background) have achieved excellency in other fields. Not because they are "meant" to be in those fields, but because they are motivated, responsible, and naturally intelligent. You can't actually succeed (or get accepted) in one of these programs with a lackadaisical attitude. So, out of respect for your future colleagues, please refrain from making that association as it is patently false.