eating our young?

gonzo1, ASN, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Unfortunately I have experienced this on two units I worked on as well. Now Iwork in a warm and fuzzy environment. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, concentrate on how you treat your patients and provide them with the best care you can and learn as much as you can. If things don't get better than you may have to go to a different unit or place of employment. Some units are just toxic and need to be avoided, but you will eventually find a place that you fit in. FRom my experience "specialty" units can harbor some very territorial and nasty personalities (but not all)

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Many of your CCU peers put in years of experience and 'paid their dues' before moving into a 'specialty' unit.

I know, it's out of fashion now to conceive the idea that a year's experience 'on the floors' would have bettered prepared you to be in CCU. But don't discount that your peers feel exactly that way.

And don't be surprised that they don't give you slack to learn PRECISELY because of their beliefs that, by coming directly into CCU, you demonstrate - to them - your desire NOT TO LEARN.

And so, your experienced peers don't give you the very slack you didn't give yourself by 'learning the ropes' BEFORE coming to CCU.

Do you know how many times your peers have to take more complex assignments so you can 'learn the ropes' on easier ones? Can you not see the root causes of some resentment?

Flame me if you like. I never said this was MY point of view. (although, point of fact is IS my POV - but I try very hard not to express it at work. Knowing how I feel, I work hard to overcome my bias.) But, it is likely a prevalent POV where you work. We have 4 GNs coming into our unit. Do you know how many times I've already heard about the problems w/ so many nurses with no experience coming at one time --- and they haven't even started on the unit yet!!!

I haven't even MET them and there is already a unit-wide predisposition to be annoyed by them.

In any case, I wouldn't take it personally. It's not a reflection on your personality but your 'status'. Work hard, be friendly, challenge yourself and take and request more complex patients, and put in some time and you will get along.

Yes, CCU nurses are known for their strong personalities. But, being assertive is critical in critical care. On the whole, it's an advantage. Rather than complain about it, develop it within yourself.

Many people suggest that nurses need to 'grow a backbone' to survive in hospital environments. This is exponentially true for CCU. When you're pushed, don't cower; push back. Assertively, not aggressively. That's how you gain respect.

That means knowing when to ask for help, and demanding it if it's not forthcoming. And it means not being afraid to ask.

I learn something new everyday. After 10 yrs in Critical Care, and 13 yrs overall nursing, I'm not afraid to have others review my pt's situation when I'm stumped.

I'm not 'eating' you. I'm simply pointing out that, however valid or not, there are other POVs in play here. You can deal with it. But, it takes a strong voice. Once developed, that strong voice will be your patient advocacy aid.

(btw, many nurses take exception to the claim that nurses 'eat their young'. I wouldn't be surprise if somebody doesn't point that out to you in this thread.)

~faith,

Timothy.

PANurseRN1 · Jul 16, 2006

I was going to point that out, but you beat me to the punch. Some new nurses set themselves up for difficulty because they go into the clinical setting anticipating being "eaten." Then, when an experienced nurse dares make the smallest criticism, the new nurse cries about "new nurse eating."

I also agree with your take on new grads in specialty settings.

steelydanfan · Jul 17, 2006

I too agree that older nurses can eat thier young, but I have also been on the other side when a new grad comes into CCU with expectations that "I just graduated, I know it all, you guys are dinosaurs and I am here to save your sorry butts".

IMHO, new grads do not belong in ICU. Sorry, but in my 27 years of nursing, every time we have tried it, it failed but once. They either freak out at the stress and leave after some VERY expensive (in financial and emotional cost; what do you think it takes out of us to put our heart and soul into training these nurses; it's HARD to precept);or decide that they JUST can't handle night shift after all (we have a very low turnover, they were told, NOW it's a surprise?).

The only success (?) was a near perfect preceptee who has morphed into an arrogant, belligerant staff nurse who is uniformly disliked by the entire staff. I have the dubious distinction of having been her preceptor.

Having been a preceptor for many years prior to her rotation, I STILL anguish about what I missed.

dragonflyRN · Jul 17, 2006

Ha...I am an old new grad. New to nursing....old to the politics. I have seen where the "nurses eat their young." They do....sometimes. I have not had a problem with any nurse....older or younger than me. I feel for the older nurses though. There are these new 22 or 23 year olds that are trying to run the show. They want to be in charge all of the time. They think they know it all. They don't. I don't either....but I'm not like that. It almost pisses me off that the manager will put these young girls in charge...but I know it pisses off the senior staff. Not quite a fair deal.

happytobehere · Jul 18, 2006

I appreciate the honest words. I never imagined that I would be taking any ones place or moving into a unit where I skipped so many steps. My first step in being assertive is asking for a unit. My preceptor is wonderful unitl she gets stressed out, then she attacks and bites at me. But through this whole experience I have a strong desire to shut up, do my work and if it does not get better..... leave!

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 18, 2006

I appreciate the honest words. I never imagined that I would be taking any ones place or moving into a unit where I skipped so many steps. My first step in being assertive is asking for a unit. My preceptor is wonderful unitl she gets stressed out, then she attacks and bites at me. But through this whole experience I have a strong desire to shut up, do my work and if it does not get better..... leave!

I'm not a fan of nursing coming straight from school into critical care.

Having said that, it is all too common these days. It is a dynamic that sets up obstacles and attitudes for you to overcome. But, management has decided that this is the way to go. That being the case, you should not 'buy in' to the stereotypes and prejudices against you being there.

You have a right to be there, or, you wouldn't be.

NOBODY is going to be as strong a voice and advocate for your career as you. Don't 'shut up', rather, assertively voice your concerns and questions.

No matter how I or others feel about coming straight into CCU, nurses do it everyday. There is no reason you cannot be successful. Work hard to overcome the obstacles, work hard to learn, keep a positive attitude and stand up for you.

Stick with it unless you decide it's not for you. That's different than deciding you want to be there, but it's too difficult.

Persevere with class.

Good luck.

~faith,

Timothy.

Sheri257 · Jul 18, 2006

I say this a soon to be new grad .... but I've never understood where the: "eating their young" expression comes from. It's not like RN's choose have the responsibility of training new grads or students thrust upon them. These aren't the RN's babies, these are management's babies. And I don't blame RN's for resenting it either. Their job is tough enough as it is.

As a student I've been in some pretty hostile environments but, I just adopt the attitude that I'll work my butt off and eventually win them over. I know it's a pain for me to be there so, I try to make it as less of a pain as possible.

:typing

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2006

You're not being very specific in your post. What exactly is going on. Are you generalizing, or overblowing one or two instances or are you truly being eaten alive. Is it everyone, or one or two people. Are you mind reading putting negative thoughts on someone's insides based on what you see on the outside?

Timothy and I disagree on whether or not it's o.k to enter into CCU straight from nursing school (we disagree on a lot of things). However, regardless of what we think new grads are being sent to CCU and the old trolls that stick their superior noses up at the new grad because they haven't paid their dues and don't think they should be there, are being petty and immature, and they forget that even though they "paid their dues in med-surg" they still didn't come right into ICU/CCU ready to take the complicated cases, they had to be trained as well. We need to make the best of the current situation, which is new grads are in fresh out of school..........deal.

I hate when new grads aren't allowed to be new grads, and this applies to any unit, not just the specialties.

Where Timothy and I agree is that it's up to you do deal with people in an assertive matter. Don't accept unacceptable behavior. Stick with the winners. Find a mentor, find someone you can go to, if you're not getting what you need, it's up to you to ask and advocate for yourself. If someone is being a troll confront them personally first, don't go crying to the manager, "no one likes me and nurses eat their young". Go to the person and say "when you blew me off just now when I needed help, you made me feel............", "I notice you won't give me the time of day when I'm here, is there a problem with me?", etc. etc.

Good luck to you. We're here to help, not judge.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2006

I appreciate the honest words. I never imagined that I would be taking any ones place or moving into a unit where I skipped so many steps. My first step in being assertive is asking for a unit. My preceptor is wonderful unitl she gets stressed out, then she attacks and bites at me. But through this whole experience I have a strong desire to shut up, do my work and if it does not get better..... leave!

You didn't skip any steps, although there's some debate in that.

I'm a strong believer in choosing your battles. There are times to keep your mouth shut and do your job and there are times not to. Understanding that your preceptor is stressed and keeping quiet might be the right thing to do. However, you might eventually say "are you aware that when you are stressed you........and it makes me feel............". There are also times to speak up.

Too many nurses take the dysfunctional position of keeping our mouths shut, or the position "the next time it happens", or just quitting which essentially reinforces the negative behavior that is causing one so much grief in the first place, when nipping it in the bud would make for greater job satisfaction in the end. (Sorry for the runon sentence. LOL.)

I agree there are times to stay and fight, wait it out, and times to leave. Whichever is the right road, rash decisions aren't good. Niether is generalizing the profession with a blanket statement "nurses eat their young".

Good luck.

Dinith88 · Jul 19, 2006

IN my experience (i'm just one of a gazillion CCU/ICU nurses), the nurses who have the better 'transition' are the ones with experience (be it med/surg, tele, whatever). New grads have a longer, more difficult time 'becoming' an adequate icu nurse. The biggest reason, i believe, is that new-grads have to learn how to 'be' a nurse (the language, the subtleties(sp?) of communicating with other staff/md's, procedures, etc) ON TOP of dealing with the special stressors/procedures/bells/whistles/crisis unique to ICU.

New grads can do it, experienced nurses are just better at it (transitioning to icu).

Before complaining about 'nurses eating the young', new-grads/students need to see things from the other side...

For example, you come to work and take report on two critically sick patients, both of whom have wigged-out families freaking out because so-and-so is in ICU and could potentially die...and you cant be two places at once... Add all of the fancy bells-whistles-monitor-mayhem, the family crisis-issues, ancillary staff (phlebotomists, xray-techs, respiratory therapy, etc) who arent where they need to be when they need to be, etc. etc. etc...AND you have to 'mentor' a student or new-grad who (because of nursing school) assumes they know ALOT more than they do...watching you chart...tagging/tailing along....and (if you're a 'good' nurse) you have to spend energy explaining/showing things...answering questions...etc. etc.....it becomes easier to understand why a nurse could become frustrated and 'snap' a the 'eager' student/orientee. This then perpetuates the whole young-eating myth...and so on...

This is not to say that other specialties have more or less stress...but icu DOES have unique stressors that can make things/nurses edgey(sp?) even without someone on their hip.

In my opinion, new grads/students need to be more 'sensitive' to the older/experienced nurses...because some-day they'll be walking in their shoes...And will (finally) understand them...