DoH wants to stop doctors from leaving RP

suzanne4, RN · Aug 3, 2007

And what about preventing judges from taking up nursing just to get a green card?

Highly suspect that you are going to see some significant changes going on over there and very soon. Definitely need the year internship, and perhaps severely limit the second courser programs, as that is where most of the problems are. At least from what we are seeing.

And if the school does not have a satisfactory pass rate on the NLE of at least 60% two years in a row, then they need to be closed down and the owners not permitted to own another school again.

pinoy_guy · Aug 3, 2007

somebody is serious about stopping doctors from leaving...in less than 12 hours, the news agency changed the headline to read

doh: gov't can stop doctors from leaving; it is the law

they are now citing "the law."

scary.

and what about preventing judges from taking up nursing just to get a green card?

i didn't know about this.

i wonder just how much nursing skills they have on graduation.

can't uscis deport these "nurses" if they do not end up working as rns, but instead used nursing as a ticket to a green card?

highly suspect that you are going to see some significant changes going on over there and very soon. definitely need the year internship, and perhaps severely limit the second courser programs, as that is where most of the problems are. at least from what we are seeing.

too many problems.

mostly brought on by greed.

i think somebody ought to sit down, and tackle the problems one by one.

from past events, our politicians do not have the political backbone to do the right thing.

it took cgfns' refusal to issue visascreen certificates to wake some people up from their delusions about cheating in the june 2006 nle.

i feel it will take a combined effort of cgfns, the ncsbn and the state boards of nursing, and uscis to solve this problem.

and if the school does not have a satisfactory pass rate on the nle of at least 60% two years in a row, then they need to be closed down and the owners not permitted to own another school again.

i agree.

it's shameful when the regulating body (ched) pushes for closure of some schools and is vetoed by some congressmen.

Hoss · Aug 3, 2007

Suzanne, you have really hit the nail on the head! Judges becomming nurses? Oh lordy, if they make decisions as nurses in the same time frame they make judgements, NO Patients will survive under their care!! God forbid that judges and lawyers flood the ER/OR and ICU's with their indecisive and never ending bickering over the meaning of a single word!!

More seriously, though, is the unfortunate prospect of this govt. making a knee jerk decision to block Drs. from leaving instead of giving this country the opportunity to retain qualified physicians and nurses.

Instead, this country must recognize the abundance of riches it has in the great talent for care giving. Why not invest heavily in the infrastructure needed to build a world class foreign health care industry right here in the Philippines? How simple would it be to set up 4 or 5 regional 1st Class Tertiary Hospitals and dozens of long term recovery/hospice and nursing facilities throughout the country to offer affordable health care to foreign nationals?

This would allow the marketing of the medical professions here to earn good pay, continue their education and experience levels, and deliver excellent long term and other types of health care to those in the western world who cannot afford USA price levels? It would be a natural for the Hotel and Tourism industry to team up with the medical schools and hospitals to offer excellent personal health care at a fraction of US prices.

Don't "SHUT THE DOOR" but rather "OPEN UP THE OPPORTUNITY" for Doctors and Nurses to make a good living and stay here in country!

IMHO

Hoss

margauxfd · Aug 3, 2007

Well, Filipinos have to say BIG thanks to Filipino nurses (and other Filipino OFWs) for bringing IN money to the Phils. The fact is, a big percentage of the economic growth of the Phils is due to the remittances of OFWs. Nobody has the right to stop anybody from learning. We can choose to be lawyer now and decide to change path and become a nurse in the future. People change. Their outlooks change. Who knows, a lousy lawyer can be a caring nurse.

I don't think imposing a bill forcing nurses to work locally for 2 years will help increase their nursing knowledge and improve their nursing skills. Other countries (and other hospitals) have different standards. If they are forced to work locally, do you think they'll be more competitive? Well, I don't think so. That's Filipino RNs need to take NCLEX-RN and be trained in the hospital. Try watching Taylor's or Delmar's clinical nursing skills videos. What they show there is far different from what nurses do here. I am not saying that all nursing graduates in the Phils are unskilled. Of course, there are students who are dedicated and are serious of becoming good nurses. Nursing schools are growing like mushrooms. You can see them anywhere in the Philippines. The best solution to prevent the problem of having UNSKILLED doctors or nurses (locally or abroad) is to close the schools that are way below the standard (i.e. having a low passing rate).

This is a big problem for doctors taking up nursing. I just hope the Phil. gov't will look at it in a wider perspective.

gemini_star, BSN, RN · Aug 3, 2007

And what about preventing judges from taking up nursing just to get a green card?
Highly suspect that you are going to see some significant changes going on over there and very soon. Definitely need the year internship, and perhaps severely limit the second courser programs, as that is where most of the problems are. At least from what we are seeing.
And if the school does not have a satisfactory pass rate on the NLE of at least 60% two years in a row, then they need to be closed down and the owners not permitted to own another school again.

There are judges taking up nursing? I am not aware of that. The news is great which only shows that the government is starting to take action on this matter. I wish they would also close some schools as what Suzanne has said.

pinoy_guy · Aug 3, 2007

doh mulls banning migration of doctors

08/02/2007 | 04:34 pm

to stem the exodus of medical doctors for greener pastures abroad, the health department is thinking about banning the migration of filipino physicians to work overseas.
this could possibly be done by invoking a provision under the migrant workers and overseas filipinos act that authorizes a ban in the deployment abroad of certain skills to protect the national interest, according to health secretary francisco duque iii.
the ban, he said, could be justified by the health crisis arising from the labor migration of doctors.
former health secretary jaime galvez tan has estimated that at least 3,000 experienced doctors leave the country every year to work abroad. this is apart from graduates of medical courses shifting to nursing as an easier route to find employment abroad.
. . .
a study done by the up-nih from 2001 to 2006 showed that in every 2,000 graduates of medicine annually, there are 3,000 doctors leaving the philippines, thereby posting a backlog of 1,000 medical professionals.
in addition, between 5,000 and 6,000 doctors have sought employment overseas, mostly as nursing staff.
the up-nih study also indicated that roughly 100,000 health professionals, mostly doctors, have left the country in the last 10 years.
. . .
section 5 of republic act 8042 allows the government "in pursuit of the national interest or when public welfare so requires" to "terminate or impose a ban on the deployment of migrant workers."
. . .
duque said the country seems to be "nearing" a shortage of doctors that is why the government "should close the door" on their labor migration.
he added that the possible deployment ban will only involve doctors and will not cover other health professionals such as nurses and caregivers.
. . .

a lot of questionable statements here.

former health secretary jaime galvez tan has estimated that at least 3,000 experienced doctors leave the country every year to work abroad.

he never did show his basis for this estimate.

like he never showed the list of "1,000 hospitals which had allegedly shut down because of the lack of doctors."

just the magic figure 1,000.

this figure was later "broken down:"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/southeast_asia/hf20ae04.html
galvez-tan says that about 200 hospitals have recently closed down across the country because of a lack of doctors and nurses. another 800 hospitals are considered "partially closed", meaning that at least one of their wards has been shuttered because of the lack of qualified health personnel.

this is apart from graduates of medical courses shifting to nursing as an easier route to find employment abroad.

is nursing an "easier" route?

this guy must think that doctors have taken an oath of poverty, chastity, and obedience.

last time i checked, only priests did that.

a study done by the up-nih from 2001 to 2006 showed that in every 2,000 graduates of medicine annually, there are 3,000 doctors leaving the philippines, thereby posting a backlog of 1,000 medical professionals.

actually, there are a lot more graduates...the board passers are nearer this figure.

from the prc website:

feb 2006 1,101

aug 2005 1,471

aug 2004 2,301

the up-nih study also indicated that roughly 100,000 health professionals, mostly doctors, have left the country in the last 10 years.

how could 100,000 health professionals, mostly doctors, leave within the last 10 years?

from another website:

http://diegorojobanaag.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/fast-facts-1-of-doctors-and-nurses/
56,000 - number of doctors in the philippines
9,000- number of filipino doctors that retrained to become nurses abroad
5,000- number of doctors-turned-nurses that have already left for abroad

"mostly" means 1/2 of the figure, plus at least 1.

1/2 of 100,000 is 50,000, plus 1 is 50,001.

can we infer that we only have 5,999 doctors in the philippines???

bottomline is, there is no formal study, there is no credible source of figures being broadcast. alarmingly.

it is interesting to note this statement:

he added that the possible deployment ban will only involve doctors and will not cover other health professionals such as nurses and caregivers.

when everybody and his mother had seen the news articles wanting to stop the migration of experienced nurses and new nursing graduates.

he's right about the caregivers though--i haven't seen any news article wanting to stop their migration.

i think it would be a good idea to look for an employer and have them file our papers asap.

just a suggestion.

tantrum · Aug 3, 2007

There are judges taking up nursing? I am not aware of that. The news is great which only shows that the government is starting to take action on this matter. I wish they would also close some schools as what Suzanne has said.

From a recent news article, judges are one of the best paid positions. The lowest judge (local RTC) usually earns PhP68K. Many earn more than the President (which is absurd). Lawyers tend to earn better than doctors as they have a lot of career options.

But I agree that they should start closing Nursing schools SOON. Start with those 0% passing then go upwards until only those with consistent 60% passers will remain.

rn4ever? · Aug 3, 2007

Not fair at all. That's why the country has been the way it is. Lots of people with crab mentality---getting envious and jealous when a fellow countryman betters his life and that of his family's---and trying to pull down someone who has bee successful.

I just don't get it. When someone needs financial help to go through nursing school, he or she would most likely be lent money by a relative or will be sent to school by a relative and the government will not give you any financial help at all. Then when you finish the Nursing program and plan to move to a foreign land to rake in money that you work hard for, they suddenly shut the door so that you cannot leave! How selfish is that?

g_l · Aug 4, 2007

doing this, the government will have a lot of dissent, the health team's performance will go down the drain, and all you'll have is a crop of human rights violations. i haven't seen health professionals take a big demonstration yet , but when it happens...

i fear the time when the workers' attitude from the soviet union is adopted: "as long as you PRETEND to pay us, we will continue to PRETEND to work"

initial salary for a nurse is by a sizable margin lower than one of a call center agent.

right here in PI, the korean drama "jumong" is being televised. in it, the kingdom of buyeo(former home and now the enemy of the hero) is experiencing mass exodus due to the famine and the oppressive rulers. because of that, the king issued an edict prohibiting exmigration. coincidence?

i wonder if it will be banned as the marcos regime banned the anime "voltes v"?

Asked if preventing Filipino doctors from leaving the country would not violate their rights, Duque said: "I will give you this question -- When do individual human rights end and national interest begins?"

ending individual interests for national interests SOUNDS good.... how about the interests of the servants of that national interest? can they provide? if not, a massive outflux is not a odd occurrence.

i have heard that this society has cancer. not so. it has aids. the t-cells that are caring for the entire body is being wiped out from within.

pinoy_guy · Aug 4, 2007

asked if preventing filipino doctors from leaving the country would not violate their rights, duque said: "i will give you this question: when do individual human rights end and national interest begin?"

the scary thing about this quote is how casually the head of doh dismissed the rights of doctors.

are philippine doctors 2nd class citizens?

the bir called them pigs and tax evaders (from a philippine daily inquirer full-page ad by the bir). then they want the malpractice law because some people think doctors deliberately harm their patients.

no wonder doctors are throwing in the towel.

ask around in manila: call center agents earn more than doctors.

is being a doctor now a curse?

this news article is a "feeler"--if nobody reacts, they will implement it. if a lot of people react, they're gonna say it was "just an option considered"--and forget about it.

as i pointed out, this is a "slippery slope": if they successfully implement this against doctors, what's to prevent them from implementing it against experienced nurses? then against new nurse graduates?

the bills against emigration by these groups of people have been filed in congress.

with the bad track record of this administration in the human rights department, it would not be surprising when it implements the ban.

suzanne4, RN · Aug 4, 2007

We are actually seeing judges now in school, as well as other government officials there to be able to get a green card quickly. It may be hushed up in your country, but not over here. Especially when I speak to some of the immigration attorneys that I consult with regularly. They have seen all of it.

The issue is now with all of these schools that are opening to make a quick buck. And because of them, there are more students enrolled in nursing schools in PI, about 632,000 at last count two weeks ago, and not jobs for them in your country, nor in the US for that number.

So unfortunately, you are going to see changes come down the line, I am sure of that. Expect the NLE to become mandatory, like it was in the past, at least as a weeding out tool, and then it is only given two times per year and a wait of a couple of months to get results. And a return to mandatory internship or something like that. That will also help in weeding out the ones that really wish to work as an RN, and those that just want a fast escape.

The other issue is that the US does not have room for all that wish to come here, and most other countries actually require a local license and some experience before they will even accept you. The US may need to go back to that.