As I appreciate your comments I find what you say slightly insulting. Basic Assessments: As an ICU nurse and ED nurse that is where my assessment become more proficient and absolutely assisted me in my APRN roles.
Life-ending decisions (I have found that the ICU/Bedside RN are those who have been with patients and families day in and day out and are the ones who are guiding the PCP to make those decisions rather than "continue" or "status quo" and who do you think explains after the APRN/PCP has had the discussion. I was involved in many difficult decisions and assisted the family to make those decisions as an RN. Having those RN 20-plus years has made me understand how to explain and have those difficult decisions. I would hope you would respect those that read this and keep your insults and demeaning comments to yourself. I have heard you and in your opinion, RN experience should not be part of the salary discussion. BUT do not insult those who are at the bed side and belittle what they do, day in and day out. They are the caregiver at the bedside 12 hours a day, APRN/MD/PA only get a glimpse of and the RN is the one who fills in the blanks.
My intention was to ask an inquiring question and never meant it to be a forum to insult the bedside RN (which I was one for many years and even after I obtained my APRN continued to work bedside because that is where I felt I made the biggest influence on newer nurses, residents and new attendings.
As I appreciate your comments I find what you say slightly insulting. Basic Assessments: As an ICU nurse and ED nurse that is where my assessment become more proficient and absolutely assisted me in my APRN roles.
Life-ending decisions (I have found that the ICU/Bedside RN are those who have been with patients and families day in and day out and are the ones who are guiding the PCP to make those decisions rather than "continue" or "status quo" and who do you think explains after the APRN/PCP has had the discussion. I was involved in many difficult decisions and assisted the family to make those decisions as an RN. Having those RN 20-plus years has made me understand how to explain and have those difficult decisions. I would hope you would respect those that read this and keep your insults and demeaning comments to yourself. I have heard you and in your opinion, RN experience should not be part of the salary discussion. BUT do not insult those who are at the bed side and belittle what they do, day in and day out. They are the caregiver at the bedside 12 hours a day, APRN/MD/PA only get a glimpse of and the RN is the one who fills in the blanks.
I disagree. I also was a RN in the ICU/ER (charge, rapid response etc) for about 10 years before becoming a full-fledged NP. I stand by the assertion that RN experience means little in the realm of being a competent provider.
You can believe what you want. You can also ask for whatever salary you want but in an employers market (for NPs), you will be at their mercy for that they deem important to a provider role.
Being an EXPERIENCED RN and an EXPERIENCED inpatient NP, I think I have an adequate perspective in this circumstance
First, I don't know if you intended the tone here to be condescending, but it is. Second, I made it clear my experience is in the ICU. Of course you never asked what kind but after the past 2 years alone I was definitely part of the conversation. I often facilitate and advocate for families that are afraid of stating how they feel. I don't know what kind of nurses you work with or what your experience is, but it sounds limited and horrible.
Depending on RN experience and location, it often is just as good, if not better than most residencies. If you want someone who just jumped into a NP position and tried to avoid the bedside because it is hard as hell, I don't even know what to say to that. The ED I work in depends on the experienced RNs to enhance the experience of Residents and we are absolutely engaged in their training.
Also, I made it clear my experience expands well beyond. I know all about billing, coding, politics, how the pharmacy runs and the difficulties several different departments face when trying to accomplish their jobs because I have previously worked with them. If you can't understand the position your team member plays and the limitations involved, you can't be a good team member yourself. RNs are a HUGE part of the team. If you are implying that RNs have a difficult time mastering a condescending, holier than thou attitude....I think you have nailed it. It is damn near impossible to be at the bedside for 5+ years and dream that you are above anyone. If you are having a hard time understanding where someone is coming from and how to transition their thinking, that says more about you than about them.
"Depending on RN experience and location, it often is just as good, if not better than most residencies. "
This is an insane claim @Tegridy. Unequivocally not true in any way shape or form. We have a NP to DO here on the forum, ask them if RN experience is as "good" as a residency. You don't know what you don't know.
In due time you will see what I mean, but it depends on how independent you actually are.
The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, mental gymnastics and Dunning Kruger in full effect.
I agree that all experience makes a difference be it RN experience or business or case management or restaurant or retail or admin it all makes us who we are and adds and contributes to the team in different ways.
I always find it interesting that there are nurses so passionate in commenting about how vitally important RN experience is when they have not ever worked as an APN. I hear it all the time around the wards and the internet. It's hard to say how important experience is to a role you have no experience with.
I also find it particularly interesting that new or novice NPs are so confident that RN experience matters without ever working a day as APN. Even going as far as saying RN experience is the same or better than a medical residency. APRN roles vary heavily from being hand-held doing scut work to literally independent. This may play a role in the thought process for overconfidence as well.
The professions have tangential similarities at best, APRN are not practicing nursing really at all (ones actually treating patients), but instead are literally practicing medicine. This is why MD/DOs get bothered, but it is reality. We aren't handing out nursing diagnoses but MEDICAL diagnoses. Nursing school is built on training nurses in the nursing process of treating the human response to disease. Yes, there is a bit more nuance and a plethora of theories behind it but that is the gist.
Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
You get better at doing the thing you do by doing more of the the thing you do. Medicine makes me no better a nurse than the other way around. Does nursing experience hurt? Likely not. But does it help with diagnosis and treatment? Not really. It's great that some posters here understand roles better than others, it helps, but providers diagnose and treat medical conditions. Everything else is a far second. Nursing may help a bit with some of the more minute things providers do in a daily role but I can't really say its worth a higher pay grade. On one of our ICU rotations they have nurses who went back to NP school that work on the service with residents and fellows and while they understand the nursing duties fairly well they are not as strong in diagnosis and treatment, the two cornerstones of medicine.
In a hospital where RNs and NPs are in the union, years of nursing experience absolutely contributes to the starting NP salary.
I suppose that makes sense, I would venture a guess most NPs inpatient are not union though. Typical union "equity" I suppose. At least in my large urban city I have never seen that.
I disagree. I also was a RN in the ICU/ER (charge, rapid response etc) for about 10 years before becoming a full-fledged NP. I stand by the assertion that RN experience means little in the realm of being a competent provider.
You can believe what you want. You can also ask for whatever salary you want but in an employers market (for NPs), you will be at their mercy for that they deem important to a provider role.
Being an EXPERIENCED RN and an EXPERIENCED inpatient NP, I think I have an adequate perspective in this circumstance
That’s strange. My first job, I was easily able to command 15k over my immediate peers based specifically on my RN experience. I was able to articulate the impact it had on my own practice as an NP and what it brought to the clinic. Maybe it was good negotiation, but maybe that’s where that experience holds water. Negotiating that salary.
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smithdnp
5 Posts
Numenor
As I appreciate your comments I find what you say slightly insulting. Basic Assessments: As an ICU nurse and ED nurse that is where my assessment become more proficient and absolutely assisted me in my APRN roles.
Life-ending decisions (I have found that the ICU/Bedside RN are those who have been with patients and families day in and day out and are the ones who are guiding the PCP to make those decisions rather than "continue" or "status quo" and who do you think explains after the APRN/PCP has had the discussion. I was involved in many difficult decisions and assisted the family to make those decisions as an RN. Having those RN 20-plus years has made me understand how to explain and have those difficult decisions. I would hope you would respect those that read this and keep your insults and demeaning comments to yourself. I have heard you and in your opinion, RN experience should not be part of the salary discussion. BUT do not insult those who are at the bed side and belittle what they do, day in and day out. They are the caregiver at the bedside 12 hours a day, APRN/MD/PA only get a glimpse of and the RN is the one who fills in the blanks.