Does anyone think nursing school gives too many chances?

springchick1, ADN, RN · May 24, 2015

My school wasn't like that. If you failed/withdrew once you could come back after going to remediation. Your second fail/withdraw you were done. You could apply again after two years and start over.

What I think is ridiculous is that people are allowed to take boards as many times as they need. Someone the other day said they had failed their FIFTH attempt. I think after the second failure you should have to do remediation and if you fail again, go back to school.

Norepinephrine · May 24, 2015

I think this varies school by school.

Also, the medication calculation exams aren't always based on whether or not you got the math right. I got an 88% on one, despite getting 100% of the math right. Why? Before my Med/Surg I course where we learned these things, I went by the instructions on the test. The instructions said "round to the nearest tenth unless otherwise indicated". The questions on drop factors/drops per minute did not have any special instructions on them. So, I rounded to the nearest tenth.

I got every one of those questions marked wrong because I should have rounded to the nearest whole number. All the math was right though (for example, I put "12.4" when the answer would have been "12"). So, I don't think that my not knowing that at the time means I'd be an unsafe nurse. I would have gotten a 100% without that. I'm not blaming my school; I should have known that. But, it wasn't a math issue. So sometimes, there are extenuating circumstances. I'm not disagreeing with you on principle at all, but on this, sometimes the math isn't the issue. Most of the people who had to retake it were in my same boat-all or most of the math was 100% correct, but they had to retake over confusion on rounding/labels.

As for retaking classes? I think that varies person to person. I had to retake orgo chem because I got a 76. I had PVFS (weird reaction to the flu-I had never heard of it before I was dx'ed. It's basically a temporary version of CFS, or that's how it was explained to me) at the time. The fatigue is equivalent to mono, and my memory was so shot that I still barely remember that year, so I really think that played a role (for the record, I would *never* work in that state-I just wanted to do my pre-reqs and be a 'normal' college student) The PVFS "started" in December of my senior year of high school and "broke" in February of my freshman year of college, during my second term. I got an 85 the second time. I've never had to retake since. But, at my school, the policy was that you can retake two classes only once (each). Get below a 77 on that third class and you're out. Our school does allow students to take time off (usually for family emergencies-the only case I know of was a student who was her mother's caretaker when she was battling cancer), but not because they failed.

I agree with what you say in theory for sure; I'm just saying that there's sometimes more than meets the eye. Even if I hadn't been pretty sick when I took that first class, there's a chance I'd have to retake it just because it was really hard. A third of the class retook.

But yeah, letting people skirt through without basic knowledge is one thing, but I think having some leeway is fine.

umbdude, MSN, APRN · May 24, 2015

People can improve and get things right. Even med schools allow for failure and retake.

I really don't care if my classmates need to take the tests a couple more times to get them right. The end result is the same: they meet the standards and passed. And people have various legitimate reasons for withdrawing and it's really not your or my business to make judgement without knowing all the facts.

Unless you can find proof that those students who took many tries to pass will become incompetent nurses, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

springchick1, ADN, RN · May 24, 2015

I really don't care if my classmates need to take the tests a couple more times to get them right. The end result is the same: they meet the standards and passed. And people have various legitimate reasons for withdrawing and it's really not your or my business to make judgement without knowing all the facts./QUOTE]
I'm not real sure why it isn't showing up but the top paragraph is a quote from PP.*
You may not care but I do and I think the public would as well. You don't get a "couple more times" in most majors to take a test and pass. Why should nursing be any different? We could kill people. An English teacher probably won't. So if they don't get multiple chances, why should nurses?
And you're right. People do have legitimate reasons for withdrawing. I don't think anyone is judging people for that. But at my school, for WHATEVER reason you withdraw, you still go to remediation. Everyone in school has personal stuff going on. Some people just aren't as vocal about it and not everyone uses it as an excuse for doing poorly in school.

umbdude, MSN, APRN · May 24, 2015

I really don't care if my classmates need to take the tests a couple more times to get them right. The end result is the same: they meet the standards and passed. And people have various legitimate reasons for withdrawing and it's really not your or my business to make judgement without knowing all the facts./QUOTE]
I'm not real sure why it isn't showing up but the top paragraph is a quote from PP.*
You may not care but I do and I think the public would as well. You don't get a "couple more times" in most majors to take a test and pass. Why should nursing be any different? We could kill people. An English teacher probably won't. So if they don't get multiple chances, why should nurses?
And you're right. People do have legitimate reasons for withdrawing. I don't think anyone is judging people for that. But at my school, for WHATEVER reason you withdraw, you still go to remediation. Everyone in school has personal stuff going on. Some people just aren't as vocal about it and not everyone uses it as an excuse for doing poorly in school.
Again, do you have proof that students who had to try 2-3x to pass will end up hurting people as nurses? I care that my classmates "pass" but I don't care if they have to try 2-3 times. And most if not all majors allow for multiple attempts.
Do you really think that passing exams first try will prevent people from making mistakes when they work as nurses? Staffing ratio probably has much more to do with safety than these exams.
You're judging people when you don't have the facts and draw up assumptions that people withdraw because they are failing the course.

smf0903 · May 24, 2015

I got every one of those questions marked wrong because I should have rounded to the nearest whole number. All the math was right though (for example, I put "12.4" when the answer would have been "12"). So, I don't think that my not knowing that at the time means I'd be an unsafe nurse. I would have gotten a 100% without that. I'm not blaming my school; I should have known that. But, it wasn't a math issue. So sometimes, there are extenuating circumstances. I'm not disagreeing with you on principle at all, but on this, sometimes the math isn't the issue. Most of the people who had to retake it were in my same boat-all or most of the math was 100% correct, but they had to retake over confusion on rounding/labels.

Our school actually ended up putting the "math rules" in class syllabi and in our handbook because this was an issue.

Our school doesn't allow chance after chance. If you withdraw, you withdraw with the grade you have reflected on your transcripts and figured into GPA, so anyone thinking of withdrawing due to grades may as well stick it out. Ours allows one failure/withdrawal, the second one gets you a ticket out. Our math competencies require a 90% (and yes, I agree that it should be 100%) and students are allowed to take it twice. Math competencies are every semester except the final one.

katidid114 · May 24, 2015

I can understand your frustration however, maybe those individuals will not pass the NCLEX while you will. I do not understand how the school keeps admitting and readmitting them...perhaps it's a monetary thing? My school has let go of three students in the first quarter for getting less than a 78% in the class...despite having A's in the other classes. They don't "play" with that stuff.....

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · May 24, 2015

In my opinion, the person who has gone through life without ever having failed at any feat is the scariest of them all.

Failure is an important character-builder, and the earlier we experience it in life, the merrier. Failure bestows upon us the opportunity to bounce back from honest mistakes and learn from them. Failure allows us to enrich our personal development, accept risks, and bolster our resilience when times become rough.

However, I do think limits should be imposed on the number of times a student fails a nursing course. Sometimes we reach a number of failures that exceeds an exaggeration point and it is unacceptable.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · May 24, 2015

I am sorta on the fence about this, because life happens and sometimes people need more chances. On the other hand, you know what? Sometimes the universe is trying to send you a message. Or, as a theist might say, "God hears all prayers. But sometimes the answer is 'No.' "

In any event, if this annoys you, stay away from the NCLEX forum where you will find people who have failed the basic licensure exam for minimum competence to practice two, three, four, five, or more times. I am totally in favor of mandating a maximum number on that, with either a hard stop or a required refresher course to be passed with a minimum grade of 80%, no wiggle room. Last chance, and then it's on to Cincinnati. Knowing that might be the impetus students need to do better, or faculty to draw the line.

springchick1, ADN, RN · May 24, 2015

Again, do you have proof that students who had to try 2-3x to pass will end up hurting people as nurses? I care that my classmates "pass" but I don't care if they have to try 2-3 times. And most if not all majors allow for multiple attempts.
Do you really think that passing exams first try will prevent people from making mistakes when they work as nurses? Staffing ratio probably has much more to do with safety than these exams.
You're judging people when you don't have the facts and draw up assumptions that people withdraw because they are failing the course.
Again, I never said people were withdrawing because they were failing. I said people withdraw for multiple reasons. I'm not judging anyone.
Your opinion is that students should be given multiple chances. My opinion is they shouldn't. I think if you fail a class in the program a second time, you should have to start over.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · May 24, 2015

On the other hand, you know what? Sometimes the universe is trying to send you a message. Or, as a theist might say, "God hears all prayers. But sometimes the answer is 'No.' "

I totally concur with your sentiments. I'd also like to bring up the following quote: "Sometimes rejection is a form of protection."