Does anyone else find this offensive?

Angelfire3 · Jul 24, 2010

Greetings All,

I'm a newbie here. This is my very 1st post. I'm considering switching my college major to BSN. I'm on here looking for info regarding BSN & the versatile specialties. I'm currently a PA major (Lower division), but my 1st love was to become a flight nurse or forensic nurse, although I'm strongly considering FNP. IDK. We'll see where my interests take me.

Anyway, I'm replying to this post first because I'm an unemployed MA (my choice--in college), who IS still nationally certified through AMT. I was also certified in phlebotomy through IAPS, but I let that expire. I don't care too much for phlebotomy. I had to sit for 2 hours each for both certification exams. When I was in school, there were two academic options--Certificate/diploma and Associates Degree for MA, which is the same time frame for LPN's (1 yr) & ADN (2 yr). To correct the misconceptions of MA, we are taught A&P, pharmacology, medical terminology, first aid, CPR, EKG's, laboratory procedures, clerical procedures, including billing & coding, Venipuncture/phlebotomy, medical law & ethics, patient relations...need I go on? MA's are well-rounded in the medical field. We can work the front & back office. While in MA school we had Dr's, Nurses & other experienced MA's teaching the courses. I don't know where all you are from, but here in VA, you cannot get a job as a MA unless you are certified. MA's has to continuously do CEC to maintain their certification as well. How are MA's not understanding of A&P? If MA & LPN schools are a year in length, how is it that LPN have more time to learn A&P than MA's?

I was in nursing school (LPN) while I was pregnant w/my twins in 2004, but was forced to take a LOA due to being high risk. I never went back b/c we're military & we moved to another state. But the few months in school, I took A&P and the same material I learn in MA school, I learned in nursing school. When I entered a 4 year college and took my biology, chemistry courses, I remembered what I was taught previously, but my general biology & Cellular biology courses went into MORE dept than I learned in my previous two schools.

This post reminds of 2 things: 1) A bunch of kids fighting over one toy, even though there are similar toys in the toy box. 2) The belittlement I've observed b/t Dr's vs PA's; NP vs PA; Dr vs NP; LPN vs MA; ADN vs LPN; BSN vs ADN; Older/experienced nurses vs younger/new nurses. Enough is enough already. The schools are also equally expensive. NP's & PAs are not doctors either, but they are often mistaken as one. I've mistakenly called my kids health care provider a Dr and she NEVER corrected me. It wasn't until I read her name tag that I realized she was a NP. I see job ads all of the time for PA/NP's. Although one is taught the medical model & the other the nursing model; they virtually perform the same job tasks, except NP has more autonomy than PAs. Can't we all just get along? We are all important to the health field. Each position serves a purpose. Just like each organ in our body or each part on a car serves an important purpose. We should be lifting each other up, not tearing each other down like, "crabs in a barrel" or "moneys in a cage." I'll create a post about that later.

I'm still trying to figure out how our current government or "obamacare" has a negative effect on nursing jobs?

The last I checked, there has been a shortage of nursing & physician jobs BEFORE he was elected. You would think now that more than 20 million Americans can finally have access to health-care insurance, you would be happy, especially since bills will get paid. The more paying patients there are, the more of a demand for nursing jobs. The real reason why clinics & hospitals are cutting back on hiring is b/c they are losing money by uninsured patients who use the ER as a means of non-emergency health care. So what's the problem?

I'm not being mean, but those of you who have an issue w/MA's "taking your jobs" needs to get off your high-horse. You're a LPN. Good for you! I'm sure some of you have been chosen over ADN for the same reasons MA's are chosen over you, the prestigious LPN. It's all about survival. Why pay more money for an LPN when MA's can work BOTH the front & back office without having to train them or having to hire an office assistant? When I was working for a gerontology clinic in 2003, I was making $8/hr. This LPN who HAD NOT sat for her boards (therefore NOT licensed) was hired on and paid $10/hr & she gave meds. She actually took my job b/c he couldn't afford the both of us & his nursing home patient load increased. Which was fine. I understood that b/c he did frequent nursing home visits and it was not in my scope of practice to do home nursing visits. I got over it.

For the original poster of this thread, congratulations on preventing yourself from getting a job. The MA who got hired, thanks you. :lol2:

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

No that isn't legal. According to the College of Nurse's Standards, (Canada), you are not allowed to impersonate a nurse in any way. You are not legally permitted to use the terms "nurse" or "registered nurse" or "RN" unless you actually are one. I'm sure the same applies for the US.

It is may not be legal for a person to refer to him/herself as a nurse if not licensed as such, but there is no legal issue involved in a provider referring to an MA as a "nurse." It may be WRONG semantically, but it's not illegal.

In the case of the MA calling with phone orders and referring to herself as a nurse, now THAT IS illegal, not because she called herself nurse necessarily, but because an MA can't call provider orders to anyone (except in the case of calling in Rx to a pharmacy), and a nurse should never receive verbal orders from anyone except the provider giving the order. It is illegal in SOME states to call yourself a "nurse" but not in ALL states. You cannot use RN or LPN without a license, but "nurse" may be "up-for-grabs" depending on your state's laws.

krazievi3t6url · Jul 24, 2010

It's funny how you all said things about not offending MAs and such but in most of the post everyone is pretty much bashing MAs. I am an MA myself and know a lot of great MAs...I work at the county clinic and we do the same job as LVNs, RNs, aside from the treatment/patient education. I also work at a private peds office where we do everything...Of course under MDs orders. We are all in the healthcare field and we should support one another!

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

First of all its probably pretty rare for there to be a charge nurse in physicians office. Most places that use MAs don't use RNs at all. The MA practices under the physicians license under something called delegated medical practice. A physician in most states has broad power to delegate the practice of medicine as long as they are present to supervise.
In addition MAs generally have a skill set that is not taught in LPN or RN programs. For example MAs in an office are generally expected to do phlebotomy, 12 lead EKGs and limited scope X-ray (depending on the state). Things that in my experience are not taught in nursing programs. Again depending on the program they are taught billing and front office skills that are not taught in nursing programs. MA programs are designed with a specific skill set that is needed in outpatient ambulatory doctors offices.
David Carpenter, PA-C

I have worked as a Medical Assistant in an urgent care facility and given meds via IV PUSH on the order of and under the direct supervision of the physician. The liability falls on the provider, as stated above by PA Carpenter.

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

I have worked as a Medical Assistant in an urgent care facility and given meds via IV PUSH on the order of and under the direct supervision of the physician. The liability falls on the provider, as stated above by PA Carpenter.

Ironically, I worked alongside a LPN in this clinic, and she could NOT give meds via IV push because under the state's Nurse Practice Act, she was prohibited from doing so!

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

I wouldn't be offended/ For most outpatient clinics, the duties required are well within the scope of practice for an LPN and MA. An LPN is not the same thing as a MA. The LPN is trained to do more than the MA. But this is irrelevant in the eyes of the employer, because what s/he needs both can do.

LPNs are not trained to "do more." They are trained differently for different tasks. There are several things that MAs are trained to do that LPNs are not! How would you like to hear that MAs are trained to do more? Because, in truth, they probably ARE trained to do more than LPNs in some instances.

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

Yeah. They are just two very different things. They said they will pay $12 an hour. I'm not sure what salaries are for LPN's but it should be more than that. They worked hard to get where they are. They should be paid according to their skills.

And MAs DIDN'T work hard to get where they are, I suppose...

Some skills that a MA should be paid for that a LPN probably did NOT learn in LPN school:

EKG

phlebotomy

limited Xray

medical billing

medical coding

Angelfire3 · Jul 24, 2010

tntciurro,

I see that you are at Ft. Stewart! Are you military? We just moved from there in Feb 2009. Did the projected 18,000 plus military families move there?

lkwashington · Jul 24, 2010

Ironically, I worked alongside a LPN in this clinic, and she could NOT give meds via IV push because under the state's Nurse Practice Act, she was prohibited from doing so!

You are correct. There are certain meds LPN's can give especially IV push.

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

tntciurro,
I see that you are at Ft. Stewart! Are you military? We just moved from there in Feb 2009. Did the projected 18,000 plus military families move there?

We did not get that additional brigade as originally planned, so no, that did not happen after all.

To answer your other question, I am prior service. I was a medic. My husband is still on active duty. I am currently completing my ADN through the Excelsior distance learning program. All I have left is to pass that dastardly CPNE before I can take my state board exam. I am scheduled to take the CPNE in September. Provided all goes well with that, I count on being T. Ciurro, RN no later than November! YAY!

What about you? Are you military?

Fribblet · Jul 24, 2010

In addition MAs generally have a skill set that is not taught in LPN or RN programs. For example MAs in an office are generally expected to do phlebotomy, 12 lead EKGs and limited scope X-ray (depending on the state). Things that in my experience are not taught in nursing programs.

With the exception of x-ray, this is false.

I cannot speak of any program other than a BSN program, but we are definitely taught 12-lead EKGs (and how to interpret them) and phlebotomy. We're even allowed to stick living people while in school. They even teach us what each tube is, the additive in them, the tests they are commonly used for and how to interpret the results of each test.

Did you seriously think that RNs just learned all about EKGs and phlebotomy after graduation?

TLSpaz, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2010

With the exception of x-ray, this is false.
I cannot speak of any program other than a BSN program, but we are definitely taught 12-lead EKGs (and how to interpret them) and phlebotomy. We're even allowed to stick living people while in school. They even teach us what each tube is, the additive in them, the tests they are commonly used for and how to interpret the results of each test.
Did you seriously think that RNs just learned all about EKGs and phlebotomy after graduation?

Well, I began my long, convoluted journey toward my RN in a 4 year, BSN program and at least at my school, we were taught NEITHER phlebotomy NOR how to perform an EKG. (We were taught basic EKG interpretation.) SO, YES...in the case of my compadres who graduated, they DID have to learn phlebotomy and EKG on-the-job after graduation! I would not take anything in this thread personally if you are an RN, BSN! This is an LPN vs. MA battle....