Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
Vicky,

So what will this mean exactly for the APN? Will he or she then be called doctor? Will this mean an increase in pay? What is your opinion on this? Is there a way as a nurse to voice opinion in this decision? Will current APN be grand-fathered in? Thanks for your help!! :nurse:

Hello, gemini81sg,

Looks like you have come into this conversation a little late. If you will read back through the answers on this very long thread, most of your questions (if not all), will be addressed/answered. Title, pay and the status of the Masters prepared APN have been addressed.......

Here is another thread about the DNP:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f34/readers-authors-respond-introducing-doctor-nursing-practice-180047.html

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
Hello everyone I am new to this but I was reading the topic about the doctoral degree and if I am planning to go into that field would it be best if I go ahead and work on getting my doctorate?

Hello, cagray00 and welcome to allnurses.com

If, after you complete your RN program and get some RN experience, you are interested in advanced practice, you might consider the DNP. I have no idea where you are in your nursing program. But, if the DNP becomes mandatory, you'll have no choice but to pursue it.

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Specializes in Neuro, Critical Care.
The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/News.../DNPRelease.htm

I herard this was to happen in 2012. I would not become an NP if the degree became DNP.

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What if NPs who wish to teach and advance nursing knowledge and theory go on to PhD programs?

What if we establish NP residencies much like PA residencies in specialties to bolster the relatively minimal clinical hours that are available in most MSN NP programs? See University of Maryland's NP fellowship program.

Why then would there be a need for the DNP? NPs already can practice "independently" and own clinics. If NPs really want to learn how to set up their own practice, go to a seminar. Why pay all that money just to learn that?

Do most NPs really believe they are practicing nursing? Do most NPs really think about their favorite nursing theorist when they have 40 patients to see? NPs are practicing medicine, albeit at a different level than MD/DOs but it's still medicine.

Thoughts?

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Specializes in Pain Management.

I've tried to search this thread but...so sorry if this has been covered.

One of my instructors today said that all NP's are going to have to go back to school to get the DNP in order to practice. So I told her that I heard [actually read on this board] that all the master's level NP's will get grandfathered in as DNP's. She smiled and said that is correct...BUT getting reimbursed might be another story.

She told a story of how certificate NP's were allowed to practice once the requirement became a master's degree, but eventually the insurance companies started to require a master's degree in order for the NP to get compensated.

Is this true? If so, is it likely to happen to master's trained NP's when the requirement becomes the DNP?

[note - her story might be a local account of things, i.e. Kansas and/or Missouri, and not the rest of the country...I'm not sure]

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i've tried to search this thread but...so sorry if this has been covered.

one of my instructors today said that all np's are going to have to go back to school to get the dnp in order to practice. so i told her that i heard [actually read on this board] that all the master's level np's will get grandfathered in as dnp's. she smiled and said that is correct...but getting reimbursed might be another story.

she told a story of how certificate np's were allowed to practice once the requirement became a master's degree, but eventually the insurance companies started to require a master's degree in order for the np to get compensated.

is this true? if so, is it likely to happen to master's trained np's when the requirement becomes the dnp?

[note - her story might be a local account of things, i.e. kansas and/or missouri, and not the rest of the country...i'm not sure]

up to this point i have not heard any plans for the insurance companies changing requirements to the dnp. the dnp requirement by nonpf is for 2015, maybe by that time the insurance industry will no longer be running health care in the us. the first certificate programs started in 1965, the master's requirement about 1992. the start of requiring the master's degree for certain reimbursements ? about 1998. there are numerous great nps currently practicing with a certificate degree, they were grandfathered in. i am a strong supporter of the dnp, i don't see any ill effects to the master's prepared nps in practice or reimbursement.

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i am a strong supporter of the dnp, i don't see any ill effects to the master's prepared nps in practice or reimbursement.

ok. convince me why i should pursue being an np then. if i have to go that far to be an np (bsn, msn and dnp), why don't i just go to the md route? more money, no collaboration, etc, etc. imo, it will kill the np program.

otoh, what is the advantage of the dnp? will i practice better? how will it improve the way i do things? how am i, with a msn, deficient when compared to an md that the dnp will address?

i am not against the dnp program. however, before i see it as necessary to practice, i would like some studies to prove the efficacy.

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OK. Convince me why I should pursue being an NP then. If I have to go that far to be an NP (BSN, MSN and DNP), why don't I just go to the MD route? More money, no collaboration, etc, etc. IMO, it will kill the NP program.

OTOH, what is the advantage of the DNP? Will I practice better? How will it improve the way I do things? How am I, with a MSN, deficient when compared to an MD that the DNP will address?

I am not against the DNP program. However, before I see it as necessary to practice, I would like some studies to prove the efficacy.

I have a different perspective as a non nurse with an interest in medical provider education.

Look about this the other way around. A number of states require an NP to have one year of experience and additional training in Pharmacology to be able to prescribe. This is a clear indication that at least some BON's do not consider new grads ready for practice. The DNP with additional pharmacology training would satisfy this.

The Canadian NP practitioners looked at NP training and recommended increasing clinical hours (I understand this is not exactly apples to apples for US NP programs). This can be found here:

http://www.cnpi.ca/documents/pdf/tech-report/section1/01_Integrated_Report.pdf

A number of nurse educators have called for increasing NP clinical training through other methods such as residencies:

http://www.nursingworld.org/ojin/topic28/tpc28_5.htm

The real problem that has not been discussed is that to a large extent the changes in NP programs in the last 40 years has been the development of accessability at the expense of clinical experience (in my opinion). The DNP will mean more time needed for practice, more DNP/PhD nurses for instruction. There is no indication that this will provide more income for the extra expense. Even among nurses there is controversy over the real reason for the DNP. The authors state in part:

The movement to the DNP is grounded in the belief that patient safety and quality care can be enhanced by preparing APNs at the doctoral level. Nursing practice has changed, and the old requirements for what it takes to prepare expert clinicians are no longer sufficient.

While this does not directly address the need for additional training, the founders of the DNP clearly believe the DNP will make you practice better or ease your entry into practice. A cynic would look at it as a power grab by organised nursing faculty :).

If you have not already I would advise you to read the article in the sticky. It is an interesting perspective on the thoughts of NP's and the people that developed the DNP.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/543596?src=mp

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.

This has been said before, but DNP would be a clinical doctorate, you would not need to get your MSN.

As for why do a DNP instead of an MD? Because the nursing model is different than the medical. I have no interest in becoming a medical doctor. I like the holistic outlook of nursing.

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This has been said before, but DNP would be a clinical doctorate, you would not need to get your MSN.

Sorry, I must have missed that part. So you are saying with my BSN, I can go straight into the DNP? How much longer will it take then when compared to the current MSN program?

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Sorry, I must have missed that part. So you are saying with my BSN, I can go straight into the DNP? How much longer will it take then when compared to the current MSN program?

Most programs are 1-2 years more. It is extra classwork in pathophys, pharm and some others. That and 1000 hours of clinical. If I was a bettin man (and I am) I would bet that most programs will give a MSN after the ANP part berfore transitioning to the DNP. That will allow students to sit for their board until the national transition to DNP. Also most universities get extra money from the state for each degree they grant.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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most programs are 1-2 years more. it is extra classwork in pathophys, pharm and some others. that and 1000 hours of clinical. if i was a bettin man (and i am) i would bet that most programs will give a msn after the anp part berfore transitioning to the dnp. that will allow students to sit for their board until the national transition to dnp. also most universities get extra money from the state for each degree they grant.

david carpenter, pa-c

i will take that bet and raise! i am betting that most FNP programs will be bsn to dnp by 2015, there will be numerous ms to dnp programs over the next 10 years to allow those with masters degrees to transition to the dnp if they desire. if i were a student seeking a program the bs to dnp is the way to go. why would you want to do a master's thesis followed by a dnp disquisition? one scholarly endeavor is enough.

the additional time in the dnp should include courses on business/policy/economics of the healthcare system to allow nps a better understanding of the world they are entering. along with increased clinical hours.

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