Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.

Okey so now that I have read all 26 pages of this thread and am feeling a bit fuzzy up in my head, here is what I have to say.

1. The DNP is a good idea in theory. I would certainly like to become a DNP if it was actually that......a Doctor of nursing PRACTICE. I looked at around 8 of the different programs listed that have DNP's out of the 140 or so that have them. I can honestly say I was not impressed. Most had below the 1000 hrs clinicals, and very few had more than 23 credit hours in clinicals. I didn't see any that had advanced doctoral level patho/pharm/etc. Instead I saw Quantatative design, Qualitative Design, Management, etc. If I wanted more management/research I'd go get an MBA/PhD, I already have a Business degree I don't want/need more business courses. What I will want is more advanced clinical and medical education to help in my role as a NP (when I am one)

2. DNP does not equal MD/DO, period end of discussion.

3. This almost seems like an attempt to get more respect from the medical community. Lets face it, docs are not always as nice as they should be to NP's/RN's this is probably their way of trying to level the playing field

4. There needs to be residencies for NP's

5. It is dumb to make DNP entry level for NP's. There should be qualifiers with a DNP such as independent practice in all states for DNP prepared nurses that is assuming there is a standard which all dnp programs must have interms of 1000 clinical hours plus more classroom that isn't fluffy.

6. If you have earned a Doctorate you should be called by such if you desire. Same goes for PharmD, DPT, etc. Doctor means many different things, yes I know you will say in a medical capacity it always means medical doctor to the patient. I am all for a standard of Hi I'm your NP Dr. XXX. or something along those lines. I personally would use the term doctor, as that is what I would be a doctor in nursing, just as I would use the term doctor if it was in english or chemistry, you are still a doctor (expert in your field).

7. I apologize if there are spelling errors, etc, its late and I'm rather tired. Okey thats all I have to say about that.

I looked at around 8 of the different programs listed that have DNP's out of the 140 or so that have them. I can honestly say I was not impressed. Most had below the 1000 hrs clinicals, and very few had more than 23 credit hours in clinicals. I didn't see any that had advanced doctoral level patho/pharm/etc. Instead I saw Quantatative design, Qualitative Design, Management, etc. If I wanted more management/research I'd go get an MBA/PhD, I already have a Business degree I don't want/need more business courses. What I will want is more advanced clinical and medical education to help in my role as a NP (when I am one)

IOW, the DNP is going to have more fluff and no real clinical benefits?

Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.

IOW???? What does that mean?

IOW???? What does that mean?

In Other Words.

Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.

:) Well I have yet to find a program that doesn't have a good amount of fluff in it. I looked at Columbia's and even they have 17 hours of fluff. I'm just disappointed nursing seems willing to allow themselves to stay like this. Its a shame that the DNP does not really elevate clinical skills. I remember reading a thread where someone was getting their DNP. They stated that the clinicals were the exact same from when they went through their MSN, nothing was added. Makes me sad.

:) Well I have yet to find a program that doesn't have a good amount of fluff in it. I looked at Columbia's and even they have 17 hours of fluff. I'm just disappointed nursing seems willing to allow themselves to stay like this. Its a shame that the DNP does not really elevate clinical skills. I remember reading a thread where someone was getting their DNP. They stated that the clinicals were the exact same from when they went through their MSN, nothing was added. Makes me sad.

That is why I asked, what will this added hurdle do for me? Ok, it is not as much work as a PhD but it is more than an MSN. Will this fluff make me a better clinician? Probably not.

Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
That is why I asked, what will this added hurdle do for me? Ok, it is not as much work as a PhD but it is more than an MSN. Will this fluff make me a better clinician? Probably not.

Thats bascially what the last 26 pages were about, that and being "equal" to MD's. The DNP is supposed to fill gaps in the NP's education. But there is some debate as to if it does or not. Especially in other threads that I've read for those NP whos have been NP's for a few years now.

Thats bascially what the last 26 pages were about, that and being "equal" to MD's. The DNP is supposed to fill gaps in the NP's education. But there is some debate as to if it does or not. Especially in other threads that I've read for those NP whos have been NP's for a few years now.

What is "fluff" , have you been in a one of these "fluff" courses? Are you suggesting if the course isn't patho or pharm the course is "fluff"?

I don't recall a time when the DNP was equated to the MD other than posts being negative about the DNP in this thread. On the other hand this thread is long and although I have read all the posts at one time or another I didn't review all the previous posts. Being equal to the MD is not the intent of the DNP.

Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

I wish they would add gross anatomy, more pathophys, advanced microbiology, some more time focused on reading x-rays, interpreting labs and correlating the information, and definately advanced pharm - that is what I feel would make me a stronger clinician. A true business management course that focuses on operations and finances would be nice too.

NOT more theory, nursing management, etc. That stuff is fluff once you are past the graduate level - and frankly I myself could have used less of it and more of the stuff I still feel I am missing at the MS level.

Not a day goes by that I don't wish I knew more about patho, anatomy, micro, radiology, etc. There is never a day when I say to myself "Gee I wish I knew more about nursing theory".

I wish they would add gross anatomy, more pathophys, advanced microbiology, some more time focused on reading x-rays, interpreting labs and correlating the information, and definately advanced pharm - that is what I feel would make me a stronger clinician. A true business management course that focuses on operations and finances would be nice too.

NOT more theory, nursing management, etc. That stuff is fluff once you are past the graduate level - and frankly I myself could have used less of it and more of the stuff I still feel I am missing at the MS level.

Not a day goes by that I don't wish I knew more about patho, anatomy, micro, radiology, etc. There is never a day when I say to myself "Gee I wish I knew more about nursing theory".

You were actually taught to read X-rays??? Good for you. I wasn't. I will have to take a course on it myself someday. Till then, I have to rely on others to read it for me.

IF your track is a research one, it would be useful. However, if you plan to be more clinical, it should be offered as an elective.

Agreed. However, someday, I might be playing "Nursing Trivial Pursuit" and might need the nursing theory to compete. :jester:

Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

We spent about 2 hours on reading chest films - that was it.

They should have different tracks - I can think of several -

Clinical

Research (which the PhD already has)

Education (again which the PhD already has)

Leadership (Yup - PhD has this too)

So looks like the most important thing for the DNP should be clinical - after all - what are MOST NP's doing with their NP?

So where do we get this additional clinical education? Nowhere! Maybe a few of the dnp programs are going the clinical route, but many are focusing on leadership, education and research - we already have those things in PhD programs. Oh the inefficiency!

Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
What is "fluff" , have you been in a one of these "fluff" courses? Are you suggesting if the course isn't patho or pharm the course is "fluff"?

I don't recall a time when the DNP was equated to the MD other than posts being negative about the DNP in this thread. On the other hand this thread is long and although I have read all the posts at one time or another I didn't review all the previous posts. Being equal to the MD is not the intent of the DNP.

Nope I have never been in one of these DNP fluff courses, I've had enough in my undergrad degrees. I don't need to take a course to know what the content that they are focusing on is. I can read a course description and extrapolate from that what they are studying. I'm sure doctoral level quantitative analysis is hard and not "fluff" but there is already a route for that particular doctorate. If your putting something like that in a degree that is supposed to be about clinical practice than yes it is fluff as many have stated on this thread. As gague14iv stated more patho, pharm, x-ray reading, etc. If you are going to be a practictioner you should learn how to practice, not collect experimental data and do a statistical analysis. Knowing what a chronbach's alpha is, is not going to help you diagnose that heart condition that your patient has. Last time I checked very few medical schools have courses required that cover that, as well as PA schools. I'm all for nursing research, but there are other areas for nurses to go other than Research, practice is one of them. If your going to have a Doctor of Nursing PRACTICE then make it about that. :uhoh3:

As for the thread there were quite a few that equated it to MD education I did however read every single post. It makes me wish I didn't it was quite long. I also know it is not the intent of the DNP to be an equivalent to MD I have never stated that it was my opinion that it was. In fact I stated in my very first post that DNP was NOT equal to MD.

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