Do you think some people just "dont have what it takes"

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I am in the process of orienting/precepting a nurse to our surgical floor. This nurse has been a nurse for 10 years, has a masters degree in nursing administration. The first day of orientation he makes the comment, he believes he will be an asset to the nurse manager on our floor because of his management experience. To make a long story short we are 5 1/2 weeks into this orientation process and I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. He continually neglects basic tasks such as noting orders, will NOT independantly review protocols I have printed for him and I believe he has no desire or ability to be a good staff nurse. His background is long term care and management, he has worked in multiple facilities and says he has worked some med-surg as an agency nurse. I have relayed my concerns to the nurse manager but because of his impeccable resume I dont think she is willing to see the problems. We are in the process of switching his preceptor but I personally dont think he has it in him. Do you agree, some people just dont have what it takes?

llg

If and when I become a nurse, or when I am able help another person I would like to think and act in the ways that you have posted as appropriate. I agree and know this is the correct way to care, and would like be this kind of person/nurse.

Thank you.

A returning student :)

Angels’

"Footsteps In The Sand

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

I have never said that a preceptor should not tell a person that he/she has made mistakes and that the performance has to improve. The ability to give negative feedback is an essential skill that all educators need.

As I have said before, I could not tell from the original post what types of conversations the preceptor had had with the orientee -- and I urged her to try to take a helpful, supportive approach to try to help the orientee identify his problems for himself. That is the proper way a teacher should procede.

After learning more from the OP in her subsequent posts, I can see that she has already tried many of my early suggestions and is ready to move on to the next step -- a step that should emphasize the documentation of the orientee's problems with clear statements about his deficiencies. The documentation will be necessary if the institution decides to terminate his employment on that unit.

I have fired several people in my life. I'm not squeamish about doing so. However, in my approximately 20 years of nursing staff development experience, I have learned that there is no need to be mean about it. It is better for everyone involved (including the unit) to try to help the individual recognize the need for the termination and identify areas that might be a better fit.

There is enough harshness and mean-spiritedness in the world -- and more than enough within nursing. We don't need to add to it by being harsh with those who have failed orientation. I'm not saying that the OP was being harsh: I was just trying to guide her away from that sort of behavior towards a kind, productive approach.

llg

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
he has worked in multiple facilities

Multiple? I'd wonder why this person went looking for new jobs.

IF i were his potential supervisor.

But since i'm not, and unless any of this is affecting pt. care, it's really none of my business.

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I prefer the blunt truth, too. And I am glad I don't have to orient this guy. The arrogant defensiveness is just too much. I agree that someone should be able to take a basic assignment on the floor before they are managing it!

That being said, it does take me a full month or so to become accustomed to a totally new job. I have made silly, thoughtless mistakes before. After I am well acclimated, I'm an above average employee. Maybe this guy is just a little slower?

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What the heck is wrong with people these days? We can't say what is really on our minds for fear we might "offend" someone. So we disguise our true thoughts in insincere-politically-correct-warm-and-fuzzy-management-double-speak. Personally, I'd rather my preceptor come right out and say,"lady, you are just not cutting it here. You don't listen to directions. You neglect basic skills. Any first year nursing student knows you don't stay with a patient receiving a blood transfusion for 1 hour and 20 minutes. New grads are easier to orient than you." If I had a problem with this statement, it is MY responsibility to clarify i.e. "can you give me some examples?" Or I could say, "uh, sorry but I disagree, and this is why..." What ever happened to personal accountability?

Yes, I believe it is possible for someone not to "have what it takes" for a particular job. This does not mean he's a bad guy. If every one in the unit thinks his job skills are lacking, chances are this is the case. And chances are he is going to have a hard time and should look for another job. On the other hand if the preceptor is the the only one who feels this way, it could be the preceptors problem. Perhaps she is not a good teacher.

I like the motto, "If it happens to you, it is your fault."

Nursenatalie: From what you've described, I think this guy worked in our unit for about 5 weeks before getting the boot.

PS My tendency toward bluntless is why I hardly ever post at this site. I don't fit here. I accept this, and don't blame others and am not offended by the flaming I am about to recieve.

PSS smiles and cheers.

Flame you?!?!? I agree with everything you said....but maybe I am too blunt too! Some people just can't cut it....period.

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Hello All. I have had this problem. I have been labeled at two jobs as not having what it takes. One job was a step down tele unit where I was only on the floor maybe 1 or 2 days a week the rest of the time i was in classes. I told the educator that this would not work for me. I was new and I needed consistancy on the floor first before taking the classes. She said this is how we orientate everyone. Well, the preceptor I worked with sugar coated everything with me. Even when I would sit down with her and ask for negative feedback. I was forced to resign. The second job I had I was told that I didnt have what it takes. NOw I had expereince in this area. I worked as an extern, I primarily functioned as an RN. I made all my own decisions about the care of my patients...with an RN to resource me if needed. At this job....I thought I was doing very well. I work very hard all shift...hep out everyone when needed ask questions if I dont understand something. ON slow nights if there was not any patiens I would read books on the unit regarding the specialty and review old charting and read unit protocols. I am someone who has been told I don't have what it takes. I now work part itme at a temp agency. The owners of the temp agency get a report from management every time I work. They have heard nothing but good things about me. I seek out help if needed. I have unique ways of solving problems....the list goes on. My biggest problem, I think, is that I don't let nurses intimidate me. I dont act meek and scared. I have been in healthcare for 14 years. I know what my job is and I know how to do it. Yeah sometimes I might not know it all and I am the first to admit it. I to can be very blunt. I have to watch what I say every day I am at work.......

Dawn

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Some people just can't cut it....period.

I'm with you. The nice part of nursing is that you can try different areas to find your niche, if thats what you really want to do.

I've had to train MA's. I'm a good teacher and try to provide them with every opportunity to succeed. I've gone out of my way to help new hires "get it", so they can move on.

However, there is always those one of two folks, who absolutely refuse to learn. I've had conferences ask them what I can do to make their training successful. For whatever reason(s), they decline any additonal help or tutoring. Unfortunately, they are also out of a job, once they are assigned and can't even do basic tasks.

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When I first became a nurse I really questioned if I had whatever that "thing" is that it takes to do the job well. I have a weird sense of humor and I laugh when I become nervous, sometimes I would forget important details. I ended up being the best and most compassionate nurse I know. It doesn't always SHOW, but I really am. If I was in a critical situation I would want someone like me there.

Point being, first impressions (and even following impressions) can be deceiving. Give the guy a chance in the real world. The true test is sink or swim. When he is left to his own and he doesn't have anyone to depend on he WILL either sink or swim. Some folks just need to be on their own fully and completely before you know what they are all about.

I've had nurses that I woulda bet my next 4 paychecks they would not cut it and they did beautifully.

Sink or swim, the real test.

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Sorry you feel it was inappropriate, but I dont see that he has his eyes set on being a floor nurse and because of his behavior think he has goals of being the boss.

What's wrong with that?

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As a new grad who didn't "have what it takes" in a unit that I was training in, I agree with this post. My preceptor tried to make things all warm-and-fuzzy and didn't communicate to me the things I was doing wrong until about my fifth week when the manager told me how bad of a job I was doing. This was totally unexpected and I not only felt stupid because I thought I was doing so well, but I felt hurt that my preceptor didn't have the guts to tell me herself that "hey, your not doing very well, these are some things you need to work on." She did kind of mention some vague things in a very casual way by saying "by the way, people don't think you are very nice, you need to work on that before the manager hears about it." To me that didn't make any sense because in my opinion my main job function is not to be buddies with the staff, it's to care for the patients. Also, I felt that since I am a new grad it is my responsibility to get my own work done and spend my spare time doing research on my patients conditions that I'm not familiar with instead of running to help everyone else. What made me really mad was when I was doing this research and my preceptor was on the computer goofing off and she wanted me to go help other people instead of getting up off her butt and doing it herself. I know teamwork is important and I help whenever I can, but I can't neglect my patients just to take care of yours.

I did end up in another unit where I fit in quite nicely. And nurses that I work with on that floor say that I'm one of the nicest people they know.

I'm not saying that the OP is a bad preceptor, I'm saying that I think it's the preceptor's job to tell someone when they aren't cutting it and try to work out ways to fix the problem.

And since I'm up here on my soapbox, I think in a perfect world it would be nice if the preceptor/preceptee had scheduled times during orientation where they had to sit and talk this stuff out. I know that when you are orienting on the floor its too easy to get caught up in your work and not have any time to talk about strengths/weaknesses etc. :: gets off soapbox::

Jessica

Jessica....

Great points, fantastic post.

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Specializes in ICU,ER.
Ideally, a "head nurse" would be able to take an assignment on the floor they manage. Don't you think?

Ha.

Ideally, yes....but so often not. I have worked with NM's that would roll up their sleeves and get down and dirty with the rest of us and they are due my respect.

Maybe this guy IS more of the (unfortunately) "traditional" type of potential manager. His desire may be to manage people that do things that he may not be up to par on himself.

I've often wondered if a few of my past NM's started out this way....:)

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Multiple? I'd wonder why this person went looking for new jobs.

IF i were his potential supervisor.

But since i'm not, and unless any of this is affecting pt. care, it's really none of my business.

I don't know, Marie. A few years ago I would have agreed with you 100%. But now, having worked for two FANTASTIC facilities (both contract jobs) I have seen the difference between a fantastic facility and your average run of the mill facility. It's like... once you have tasted Chocolate, fake Chocolate just doesn't do the trick. You have to have the real thing. Honestly, working for Mayo ruined me for hospital nursing. I have now seen true nursing and what it is all about. Having less is no longer good enough. I now know what real Chocolate really tastes like.

Since I have worked for two places that I was able to do my job to the best of my ability with all the equipment needed to do the job well, I am ruined for your average hospital. One was Mayo and the other was a home health specializing in infusion. Both places put patient care above dollars. I'll bet if folks here are honest they will say that in the last 10 years they have not worked for a place where patients come before dollars. Until I experienced that I had no idea what true nursing was. I've been bouncing around with contract jobs to find something similar and I am no longer satisfied with "good enough."

I have also been in management and I KNOW what a difference management can make. When it isn't up to par, it really is hard to stick it out. I look at some of the toush kissing managers now and slowly shake my head. I quickly realize that honestly, they don't have a clue. They are no more prepared for the job of managing a large floor, unit, facility than a new grad with no experience.

If a nurse is REALLY good AND they have tasted real Chocolate, they will easily become bored in a so-so facility. How many here can say they only stick it out because they will be vested soon, or their kid(s) are in college and they need the money? Or a multitude of other reasons? They know they aren't at the best place and they can quickly and easily see the problems and they know the answers. It's quite difficult to stay at such a place.

I no longer look at a resume with a variety of jobs with a raised eyebrow. I'm beyond that. I would be one of those folks if I didn't work contract. I've had the opportunity to see what a LOT of facilities are like merely by working there for a few months each yet it is all through one employer. I have my own opinions on each one. Some I would work for again, some I wouldn't.

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