Do you think some people just "dont have what it takes"

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I am in the process of orienting/precepting a nurse to our surgical floor. This nurse has been a nurse for 10 years, has a masters degree in nursing administration. The first day of orientation he makes the comment, he believes he will be an asset to the nurse manager on our floor because of his management experience. To make a long story short we are 5 1/2 weeks into this orientation process and I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. He continually neglects basic tasks such as noting orders, will NOT independantly review protocols I have printed for him and I believe he has no desire or ability to be a good staff nurse. His background is long term care and management, he has worked in multiple facilities and says he has worked some med-surg as an agency nurse. I have relayed my concerns to the nurse manager but because of his impeccable resume I dont think she is willing to see the problems. We are in the process of switching his preceptor but I personally dont think he has it in him. Do you agree, some people just dont have what it takes?

Specializes in Surgical.
The first day of orientation he makes the comment, he believes he will be an asset to the nurse manager on our floor because of his management experience.QUOTE]

Yes there is more to the story, not only has he made this comment to me and others but he continually emails the CEO of our hospital as well as the CNE giving his input on everything from pain management documentation to par levels for supplies. He bypasses our nurse manager and goes straight to the top. He shows no initiative to learn what it takes to make it on the floor, but plenty of time is spent rubbing elbows with the big guys. My nurse manager has been a friend of mine for 6 years, she knows about his emails to CEO and CNE and has advised him to focus on the basics before becoming involved in anything else. The comment was made to her with eyebrows raised and followed with a laugh. Our hospital requires a nurse manager to have clinical experience that would allow them to work on the floor they supervise and that precludes him from the job at this point. I gave oriented/precepting him and gave it a valiant effort for 5 1/2 weeks and now he is in someone elses hands. Unfortunately she admittedly doesnt have the patience I do, and has quite a task in front of her!

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Uh....this is what I was talking about being "inappropriate":

I have warned my nurse manager to look out as I think he has his eyes set on her job.

No offense but I think YOUR comment to the nurse manager about this man was inappropriate.....

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Specializes in Surgical.

Sorry you feel it was inappropriate, but I dont see that he has his eyes set on being a floor nurse and because of his behavior think he has goals of being the boss.

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It sounds to me like your manager is having difficulty accepting that she may have made a mistake in hiring the man and is in denial. Your comment may have been okay- especially if you normally have a good relationship with your manager. Some people are more "real" than others and don't get stuck on being politically correct all the time and sugar coating everything. As for the nurse, giving him feedback and information isn't going to work. :banghead: It sounds like he is not the least bit interested in your help or advise and already thinks he is better and so far above you. In fact, he thinks he is above the manager and can do a better job. I know some of the posters have commented that is hard to believe, but people like this do in fact exist and if you don't believe that- maybe you are one of them so you don't see it. If you are in fact giving accurate acounts, the first thing you should do is refuse to precept this man. If you must, keep a log and document every conversation and objection you have with management. This will keep you out of trouble when he gets sued of makes a serious error. I know it doesn't fair to the patients, but you can't save the world by yourself. Also, refuse (or make a written objection) to following him (if you work opposite shifts- don't take his patients). If he was hired as a floor nurse, even for a short time, he will hang himself. If enough people complain or refuse to follow him, someone might take notice. If not- at least it won't be you in court. :cool:

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Oh- and you would be surpised how many NURSES, yes- the most ethical and trustworthy bunch of folks, fudge on their resumes. I actually know people who have added years to their "experience". All a prev. employer can say is yes, he worked from date-date. But- people add on employers that don't exist anymore or have changed management, etc. People even lie about education or elevate their position and achievements. I have worked for 3 hospitals and I have NEVER HAD A SINGLE REFERENCE CALLED and 2 of the places never even checked with my past employment (in the first place I was a new grad.) Don't be impressed by words on paper- be impressed by actions in life. :rolleyes:

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This reminds me of something somewhat off topic.

I used to work in a picture framing shop that always needed more employees. I got an application from one guy with years of experience framing and high end sales. Everyone thought that it would be a very short training process. He was the hardest person to train; in fact, he never picked up on the framing part. I guess he thought it would be easy to frame pictures and would be able to do it from day one and could easily slip through a fake resume. There is no way he could have ever custom framed anything before in his life.

So, I guess you are right about that, undecided.

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I think it is important to avoid expressions such as "not having what it takes" in these situations. That can set an uproductive tone to any conversations you have with him or with your manager. Instead, try an approach that "helps him find the best fit" for his particular talents and interests. That way, you become his mentor interested in helping him be successful in his career instead of his judge/jury.

I would also try to use some of those particular concrete instances to open up the conversation about his job performance. You didn't tell us how you are handling his difficulties -- except for reporting them. For example, in the case you described above, I would talk with him in private and ask his perceptions of your miscommunication. Did he not hear you say 15 minutes? Did he not read the protocol you gave him? Did he not understand it? After pointing out to him that you both told him and gave it to him in writing ... ask him what else he needed from you to understand. See if he recognizes his problem.

I think it is vital in this case to see if he recognizes that he is having problems. You imply that he does not ... but how does he respond when confronted directly (but kindly) with a mistake such as that one? If he is in denial, then you will have to keep bringing these concrete examples to his attention. If he is not in denial, then work with him to either solve the problem or find a better fit.

A few years ago, I was in a similar situation with a former manager/educator who had been away from the bedside for several years. She just couldn't get back into the pace of the busy NICU. But I helped her to see that for herself and helped her find a better fit in another unit within our hospital, where she has fit in quite well.

Remember: if he's been a successful nurse for 10 years, he probably has some ability to do something right. He might not be right for his current staff nurse position on your unit, but he probably has ability that your employer could use somewhere.

Good luck,

llg

What the heck is wrong with people these days? We can't say what is really on our minds for fear we might "offend" someone. So we disguise our true thoughts in insincere-politically-correct-warm-and-fuzzy-management-double-speak. Personally, I'd rather my preceptor come right out and say,"lady, you are just not cutting it here. You don't listen to directions. You neglect basic skills. Any first year nursing student knows you don't stay with a patient receiving a blood transfusion for 1 hour and 20 minutes. New grads are easier to orient than you." If I had a problem with this statement, it is MY responsibility to clarify i.e. "can you give me some examples?" Or I could say, "uh, sorry but I disagree, and this is why..." What ever happened to personal accountability?

Yes, I believe it is possible for someone not to "have what it takes" for a particular job. This does not mean he's a bad guy. If every one in the unit thinks his job skills are lacking, chances are this is the case. And chances are he is going to have a hard time and should look for another job. On the other hand if the preceptor is the the only one who feels this way, it could be the preceptors problem. Perhaps she is not a good teacher.

I like the motto, "If it happens to you, it is your fault."

Nursenatalie: From what you've described, I think this guy worked in our unit for about 5 weeks before getting the boot.

PS My tendency toward bluntless is why I hardly ever post at this site. I don't fit here. I accept this, and don't blame others and am not offended by the flaming I am about to recieve.

PSS smiles and cheers.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
What the heck is wrong with people these days? We can't say what is really on our minds for fear we might "offend" someone.

PSS smiles and cheers.

When you are an educator, you have an obligation to help the person you are trying to teach ... which often means learning to see situations from their point of view, not yours. Yes, sometimes we educators have to tell someone that we have to give them a failing grade or that they can not continue to work on that floor etc. ("fail" orientation), etc. ... but it is rare that you should make that judgment after only 5.5 weeks of precepting.

When problems arise with an orientation, the first step is to try to help the person identify the problem for himself/herself and to work with that person to overcome the difficulties. If ... and only if ... such supportive educational strategies are tried and don't work, then it is appropriate to tell someone that you will not allow them to continue.

The original post did not give enough of the story for those of us who posted early to know a lot of the details. At some point, it may be appropriate to tell this orientee that "he is just not cutting it." But I could not tell that from the original post.

To NOT give people a little support at first and to give them a chance to improve is what is commonly referred to as "eating our young." It is an expression I hate, but one that came to mind as I read your post. It is one reason we have a nursing shortage.

The expression, "If it happens to you, it's your fault" that you quoted in your post reflects a terrible attitude for a teacher or manager to have. Few of us would want a teacher or manager with such an attitude.

llg

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What the heck is wrong with people these days? We can't say what is really on our minds for fear we might "offend" someone. So we disguise our true thoughts in insincere-politically-correct-warm-and-fuzzy-management-double-speak. Personally, I'd rather my preceptor come right out and say,"lady, you are just not cutting it here. You don't listen to directions. You neglect basic skills. Any first year nursing student knows you don't stay with a patient receiving a blood transfusion for 1 hour and 20 minutes. New grads are easier to orient than you." If I had a problem with this statement, it is MY responsibility to clarify i.e. "can you give me some examples?" Or I could say, "uh, sorry but I disagree, and this is why..." What ever happened to personal accountability?

Completely agree with that statement, I'd much rather someone tell me what they think TO MY FACE, directly. A "lost art"....

:roll

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Specializes in Surgical.

I am sorry llg but on our floor new grads only get 8 weeks of orientation with preceptor, usually nurses with experience only get 4. (Not saying this is enough but the way it is) Three weeks ago I explained that he was "not getting it" and would need to be oriented like a new grad. My nurse manager ok'd this and I backed him up to square one. 5 1/2 weeks is plenty of time to decide if someone has what it takes and after intensely trying the past couple weeks I have given up on him. I told my nurse manager that I hoped he would work out with another preceptor but my opinion after 5 1/2 weeks was that he doesnt have what it takes.

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What the heck is wrong with people these days? We can't say what is really on our minds for fear we might "offend" someone. So we disguise our true thoughts in insincere-politically-correct-warm-and-fuzzy-management-double-speak. Personally, I'd rather my preceptor come right out and say,"lady, you are just not cutting it here. You don't listen to directions. You neglect basic skills. Any first year nursing student knows you don't stay with a patient receiving a blood transfusion for 1 hour and 20 minutes. New grads are easier to orient than you." If I had a problem with this statement, it is MY responsibility to clarify i.e. "can you give me some examples?" Or I could say, "uh, sorry but I disagree, and this is why..." What ever happened to personal accountability?

Yes, I believe it is possible for someone not to "have what it takes" for a particular job. This does not mean he's a bad guy. If every one in the unit thinks his job skills are lacking, chances are this is the case. And chances are he is going to have a hard time and should look for another job. On the other hand if the preceptor is the the only one who feels this way, it could be the preceptors problem. Perhaps she is not a good teacher.

I like the motto, "If it happens to you, it is your fault."

Nursenatalie: From what you've described, I think this guy worked in our unit for about 5 weeks before getting the boot.

PS My tendency toward bluntless is why I hardly ever post at this site. I don't fit here. I accept this, and don't blame others and am not offended by the flaming I am about to recieve.

PSS smiles and cheers.

As a new grad who didn't "have what it takes" in a unit that I was training in, I agree with this post. My preceptor tried to make things all warm-and-fuzzy and didn't communicate to me the things I was doing wrong until about my fifth week when the manager told me how bad of a job I was doing. This was totally unexpected and I not only felt stupid because I thought I was doing so well, but I felt hurt that my preceptor didn't have the guts to tell me herself that "hey, your not doing very well, these are some things you need to work on." She did kind of mention some vague things in a very casual way by saying "by the way, people don't think you are very nice, you need to work on that before the manager hears about it." To me that didn't make any sense because in my opinion my main job function is not to be buddies with the staff, it's to care for the patients. Also, I felt that since I am a new grad it is my responsibility to get my own work done and spend my spare time doing research on my patients conditions that I'm not familiar with instead of running to help everyone else. What made me really mad was when I was doing this research and my preceptor was on the computer goofing off and she wanted me to go help other people instead of getting up off her butt and doing it herself. I know teamwork is important and I help whenever I can, but I can't neglect my patients just to take care of yours.

I did end up in another unit where I fit in quite nicely. And nurses that I work with on that floor say that I'm one of the nicest people they know.

I'm not saying that the OP is a bad preceptor, I'm saying that I think it's the preceptor's job to tell someone when they aren't cutting it and try to work out ways to fix the problem.

And since I'm up here on my soapbox, I think in a perfect world it would be nice if the preceptor/preceptee had scheduled times during orientation where they had to sit and talk this stuff out. I know that when you are orienting on the floor its too easy to get caught up in your work and not have any time to talk about strengths/weaknesses etc. :: gets off soapbox::

Jessica

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Yes, I believe it is possible for someone not to "have what it takes" for a particular job. This does not mean he's a bad guy. If every one in the unit thinks his job skills are lacking, chances are this is the case. And chances are he is going to have a hard time and should look for another job. On the other hand if the preceptor is the the only one who feels this way, it could be the preceptors problem. Perhaps she is not a good teacher.

I can't help but agree with Some of rngreenhorn's comments, sometime a certain amount of bluntness that would be required is avoided in favour of political correctness. I'm not talking about tearing someone apart but giveing a true picture of their abilities, without softening the blow. It sould never be personal, but aimed at a professional level. If the person is not suited to the job, they are just not suited*(see below). Better to move to another department where they will be able to function better.

I don't suscribe to the idea that " Some people are not suited to the job" I am more in line with the idea that they don't apply them self's, due to interest in the job, motivation, or experiance. But everyone is capable of doing what they want if they apply themself's and have the drive/love for the job. Maybe this is whats lacking??

Bolts

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