Do Newbies "Eat" Their Elders?

[Ruby Vee]

the "do nurses eat their young?" thread has become incredibly long -- and, for the most part, repetitive. but someone recently posed a question -- and proposed a topic -- that bears some discussion. do newbies eat their elders?

as an "elder", i know i've seen cases where newbies have been "out to get" the more seasoned nurses in their area, where newbies have been difficult or demanding or impossible to get along with, and where elders have interpreted some genuine misunderstandings as a newbie being "out to get them." (probably the same range of realities that exist in the "nurses eat their young" universe.) but which reality predominates?

come on, seasoned nurses! do newbies eat their elders, or is any "eating" that occurs unidirectional?

stories, examples and venting welcomed!

[jeepgirl, LPN, NP]

I oriented a new nurse though not a young nurse, she was my senior by about ten years a couple of weeks back. Bear in mind I do rehab nursing in a skilled nursing facility so we're not staffed very well.

She was a right judgmental PITA. She had been an EMT for years, kept on about how nobody in our facility would know how to save a life, had noticed nurses not remembering to turn off nebulizers or rinsing them out, had noticed nurses giving meds half an hour after the alloted time etc and she hoped that I would not be as disappointing as they had been.

What I didn't tell her is that I was last on a list of about four nurses who had oriented her and the other three were sick and tired of her. Anyway, she took her own assignment last week and I hear from our charge that she had an awfully rough time, didn't pass all her 7:30am meds until 9:30, didn't have time to do any treatments so the charge helped her out.

I will say, she is unique in the bunch of new grads we've had this year. Every other one has been great, accepting that sometimes you don't get to do everything by the book however much you want to and helpful. Unfortunately, you always remember the bad experiences.

You are going to think I am a total butt - but I have had nothing but PROBLEMS with EMT / Paramedics who have bridged into nursing. I had one who told me "I just had to go back to school to do what I already do." (and he was being snotty about it too...). I had a few that were difficult to precept and seemed to just want to ruffle feathers!!

I was shocked, because one of my best friends during nursing school (and I still consider her a good friend) was an Paramedic who then decided to go to nursing school. She wasn't like that at all - just was a sweet person. Now, I am consistently running into these emt/paramedic bridges and they are just - snotty. I don't know what it is, but I don't like it... (and I am very pro-student, pro-new nurse). Its just a weird attitude I have been seeing and it befuddles me!

[TXstudentRN]

I am as Gen Y/Millenial/whatever you want to call my generation as they come, and I can tell you that I am frustrated by my generation! I have always found myself getting along better with those older than me, and that has just been compounded since I started nursing school. It infuriates me to see how some of my classmates treat their "elderly" - and not just nurses, but also clinical instructors and professors. I hate that I get lumped into them - their sense of entitlement and holier than thou attitudes make me cringe when I'm wearing the same color scrubs at clinical in fear that I will be seen as "one of them."

I don't blame you guys for being frustrated at all - I'm frustrated and like I said, I'm one of them! And I guess the scariest thing for me is this - what happens now that my generation is having kids? If we turned out this screwed up as a whole, what is going to happen when we're put in the role of raising kids? Frightens me to no end! I often find myself thinking that I don't fit in, and frankly I don't really want to a lot of the times.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, I know it frustrates our professors and CIs just as much - just know that we aren't ALL like this!

[mama_d, BSN, RN]

I'm trying to be sure that my kids don't turn out that way by smacking them upside the head with reality whenever necessary. When they complain b/c we're having mac'n'cheese with tuna for dinner *again*, I explain to them that there are plenty of kids who don't even get that, and how difficult it is to try and provide decent protein sources on a limited income. When they whine about school, they get told they better do what they're capable of b/c when they grow up, they're going to have to work their tails off to get promotions, etc. to be able to provide for their kids. When my 9 year old asked me for a new game system, he got told just how many hours I'd have to work to earn the money to pay for it and how many week's worth of groceries that would provide. They also get told that no matter how little we have, we've got a roof over our heads and food in the pantry, so it's only fair that we give what we can to help others who are worse off...even if it means just rounding up all the nickels in the house for the "change for change" Thanksgiving campaign for needy kids at school.

I try not to be too hard on them, but also to raise them so that they know they'll have to work and respect others throughout their lives, and to do any differently would be a poor reflection on their character. And I do have to admit that alot of it is in response to what I see in the generation between mine and theirs.

[leslie :-D]

i have always maintained there are some (nurses) who eat anyone they darned well please.

thus, the basis of just some nasty personalities out there, w/age being irrelevant.

leslie

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

Interesting thread! A co-worker and I were just talking the other day about the changes we have seen in students over the past decade (I am in RN nursing education); so it's kind of a students attempting to "feast" on the faculty situation. It is not at all unusual to be confronted about everything from textbook ("you mean I'm supposed to read it?")assignments to test questions that they don't agree with. It seems to be a lack of manners / respect....and an expectation that YOU provide all the information they need; heaven forbid that they should go seek it on their own! Definitely intellectual laziness (not everyone, of course, but more and more common). I have certainly witnessed these problem "newbies" even before graduation.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I'm in awe of the generation of nurses coming up. They are supersmart because to get into nursing schools these days they have to jump through many hoops, many having great GPAs and took years of committment on their part to graduate. Most are burdened with incredible debt. They work long hours and off shifts, weekends and holidays with a strong work ethic....how could they not considering the hard work they endured to make it through nursing school?

Then they do adult things like buy homes and start having children.

There is the occasional one who comes with an attitude. I expect that. Actually when I think about it, it's the more adult worker, the one for whom nursing is a 2nd career that doesn't like to start at the bottom and take direction. ("I was a director of HR and managed 50 people....why should I listen to you punk kid?") But still they are few and far between.

So just like my answer to the question "do nurses eat their young", my answer is a loud and clear NEWBIES DO NOT EAT THEIR OLD.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I am as Gen Y/Millenial/whatever you want to call my generation as they come, and I can tell you that I am frustrated by my generation! I have always found myself getting along better with those older than me, and that has just been compounded since I started nursing school. It infuriates me to see how some of my classmates treat their "elderly" - and not just nurses, but also clinical instructors and professors. I hate that I get lumped into them - their sense of entitlement and holier than thou attitudes make me cringe when I'm wearing the same color scrubs at clinical in fear that I will be seen as "one of them."

I don't blame you guys for being frustrated at all - I'm frustrated and like I said, I'm one of them! And I guess the scariest thing for me is this - what happens now that my generation is having kids? If we turned out this screwed up as a whole, what is going to happen when we're put in the role of raising kids? Frightens me to no end! I often find myself thinking that I don't fit in, and frankly I don't really want to a lot of the times.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, I know it frustrates our professors and CIs just as much - just know that we aren't ALL like this!

I wouldn't worry about your generation. Sooner or later people grow up and deal with reality.

This generation that is doing all the complaining about you forget that their parents were extremely worried about the fututre of the country when we were kids. We started the "youth revolution", were lazy, didn't want to work, had everything handed to us on a silver platter, enjoyed the benefits of the greatest economic boom in the history of human kind, were long-haired hippy freaks, we were very disrespectful of authority, the term "generation gap" was about us, etc. etc. etc.

Then we got old.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I also have had a bit of confrontation from new grad RNs when they discover that I am an LPN. Some of them attempted to start telling me that I am less than a nurse, until I start to ask them some questions that they can't answer; then, I explain to them that what they need to back them up is experience and humility. I have had CNAs teach me how to catherize patients, how to do dressings and better ways to lift/move patients that textbooks would blush in humiliation.

[leslie :-D]

I have had CNAs teach me how to catherize patients, how to do dressings and better ways to lift/move patients that textbooks would blush in humiliation.

oh my goodness, yes!

it has been cnas who have taught me some of the neatest tricks in my nsg career.

absolute genius.

leslie

[shodobe]

It goes both ways. Young ones tend to think they know it all whereas older nurses do know it all they just don't want to part with that wisdom.

[DeadHeadRN, BSN, RN]

i am not a butt kisser by any means, but my preceptor has a hell of a lot more experience than i do and deserves my respect. not because she's a great nurse (which she is), has experience or is older than me, but because she has to deal with endless questions from me and never-ending concerns and worries about "am i doing the right thing for this patient?" or "should i do this for that patient?" "how should i chart this?" "does this note sound ok?" and still she helps me however she can. when i was a student nurse, there were many times i was treated like absolute garbage. one nurse actually told me to move the hell out of her way during clinical one day. you know what i did? i moved the hell out of her way. nursing is stressful and tempers are sometimes short and no we don't always treat each other well. but, i don't think it's fair to say that we newbies are rude or lazy or out get anyone. i never bought into the whole nurses eat their young either. yes, there will always be those nasty few from all generations/levels of experience, etc. but it's not fair to say that i am lazy and ungrateful or whatever just because i am a new nurse. there really are those of us out there who respect the experience and wisdom of older nurses and appreciate their help and guidance. i couldn't do it without them. and just for the record, i thank my preceptor and all the other nurses on my floor who are always willing to help and share knowledge every single day!

[nurse grace RN, BSN]

We hired some great new nurses this summer and they have been an asset to the unit. We did have one from last year that was a little *****. She felt entitled, superior and always right. It showed in every thing she did and she even went over the head of team leaders- " because she had her BSN". She personally attacked me every chance she got and became a favorite of the manager because she was a rat. She did eventually get put in her place and she moved on to greener pastures after doing much damage.

One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch-I really think that we all should make a concious effort to get along with one another by focusing on the patients and not our egos. We are here to do our job and not win popularity contests or rule over each other. We all can learn from one another and exist in a safe and competent environment providing excellent care to our patients or we can continue with the stupidity and let those patients down.

I prefer to make the extra effort to get along with and find a way to appreciate my coworkers so the patient gets the best care possible. It is what I would want for my family member or myself.