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Discussion

Do I have to join the Union?

Hello nurses,

I am starting a new job in Northern California where the nurses are represented by CNA. During orientation, I raised my hand to ask if joining the union was optional or required. I didn't get a straight answer, but I did get a long discussion about the good things the union does in the organization.

I agree, labor unions and CNA in particular does a lot to help with fair nurse/patient ratios and to negotiate raises. But I have a few concerns ... why is CNA authoring bills (such as SB-562 the Healthy California Act) ... that may not represent the interests of its members? What if I don't agree with SB-562, now I have helped foot the bill for this legislation to be enacted?

Also, quite honestly, I have been a member of a nurses union previously (in another state) and I had a scenario where the Union representative of our unit asked me to sign a petition regarding our retirement plans. I felt very pressured to sign, and when I said I wanted to understand what I was signing better, the Union Rep got very annoyed and started to challenge me, asking me why I didn't care about our retirement plan.

I do care about the retirement plan!! But that doesn't mean I'm just going to go along and sign everything the Union wants me to sign!!! I get to have a personal opinion, too ... right?

And it's actually really expensive to be a part of the Union - over $1,200 per year. I asked about Union dues during the presentation and the question I asked was, "Is this pre-tax or after-tax?" The guy looked at me and told me I would need to ask my accountant that information ... and he said, "That's what you pay your accountant for, right?"

Not everyone has an accountant, by the way. Some of us just use turbo tax. I googled it - and it is an after-tax expense. I really felt like my questions were unwelcome and that if I don't just tow-the-line with the Union, that I will be persona non grata.

It just feels to me a little bit adversarial.

I honestly do NOT want to join the Union. I asked if I could just take the paper and think about it and I got a shpeal about how it's easier to sign up now. I really do feel pressured to enroll in the union - but I don't want to do it, quite honestly.

I understand that there is a law that states I do NOT have to join the Union if I don't want to - I have read that ... "Workers have the right, under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), to refuse to join a union."

Supreme Court Ruling Delivers a Sharp Blow to Labor Unions - The New York Times

I am just trying to educate myself on this issue and understand my own opinion about labor unions.

What are the pros and cons of belonging to a nursing union? How many nurses out there have chosen NOT to be a part of the Union, and has there been any repercussions?

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    • Featured Replies

    The article you cite is about government employees and whether or not they can be required to pay dues if they don't join the union.

    California is not a right to work state so, as far as I am aware, you can be compelled to join the union as a condition of employment.

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    • Author

    Yes, I agree. I am trying to understand the difference between a right-to-work state and a forced union. Yes, I agree that I may be compelled to join the union. Which is fine. Just wanting to better understand my rights.

    I just wish the Union Reps would have more directly answered my questions, rather than just giving me a schtick about how great the union is. If I have to join ... then I will. But I will be silently objecting ;-)

    And who the heck is setting the rates for the Union dues? I hope that is something we get to vote on!!!

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    Yes, I agree. I am trying to understand the difference between a right-to-work state and a forced union. Yes, I agree that I may be compelled to join the union. Which is fine. Just wanting to better understand my rights.

    I just wish the Union Reps would have more directly answered my questions, rather than just giving me a schtick about how great the union is. If I have to join ... then I will. But I will be silently objecting ;-)

    And who the heck is setting the rates for the Union dues? I hope that is something we get to vote on!!!

    I don't know about California but in my state monthly union dues are 2x your hourly rate but there's a minimum and maximum.

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    • Experts

    A "right to work" state means you cannot be forced to join a union or pay union dues as a condition of your employment. The opposite being a "closed shop" where you must. My facility is unionized however we are "right to work". This means anybody who chooses not to pay dues can be employed and enjoy the rights and benefits of the union contract that everybody else pays for but they don't. Kind of slimy if you ask me. My dues are post-tax but can be claimed when I itemize for tax purposes. I admit I'm not up to date on our national union's political activities, the state chapter is not particularly vocal about any issues. We are also a "no strike" union. Honestly, my experience with the union has been predominantly positive.

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    Up until the Jorifice decision, you could choose to not join a union but still have to pay the costs associated with negotiating the contract that covers you, you weren't required to pay for union costs such as political lobbying. After Jorifice, you don't even have to pay the cost related to negotiating the employment contract that covers you, allowing you to essentially take advantage of the union's efforts without paying for them. There are pro's and con's to this, unions do sometimes become a bit lazy since they get paid whether they do a good job negotiating or not, those whom the union represents should be able to express their displeasure with the union by not paying them. At the same time, nurses are clearly better off when represented by a union.

    I often disagree with union parent organizations as well, but I'm not sure why you feel SB-562 "may not represent the interests of their members" since it's an act that ensures equal access to healthcare services, which is a core interest of nurses.

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    I'd sure try to join one if I was going to work again and if a union was even available to me still after all these years. Are they still not too big in the south? Who/what keeps them away? The big hospital corporations, lobbyists, who, who, who, who?

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    Probably lack of interest. I along with most of my coworkers aren’t interested in unions. I make WELL above the average income for my area as well as have an amazing schedule. I don’t feel like paying extra money for dues or being told when I can work

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    First, I must congratulate you for having the opportunity to work in the most glorious of situations - that of a nurse in a state that employs safe nursing/patient ratios. To say I'm envious is an understatement, as 300,000 patients a year die due to RN understaffing. Right to Work laws essentially gives the EMPLOYER the right to let you work ON THEIR TERMS. They are not worker-centric laws. I live in Ohio. I belong to a Union. I am a nurse. What I've learned is, no workplace has a union simply because the thought it a cute idea. The union was sorely needed. Be supportive and pay your dues, and know that without that union your paycheck would be so much lighter than the dues you pay and your back would be so much closer to retirement than you could believe. Good luck with your career!

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    I want to try to respond to this without being condescending or disrespectful.

    I’m sure one of the reasons you like this hospital is because of the pay, and the ratios. The union did that.

    The benefits that you will enjoy? The union did that.
    If you find that your manager is passive aggressive, or straight up aggressive, they are the heavyweight boxers in your corner ready to fight for you.
    If you have more than a 401k to look forward to after retirement. The union did that.

    I work in NYC currently and I worked in Florida when I first graduated nursing school. I LOVED the organization I worked in Florida, and thank god I had a wonderful manager, but the pay was very low, especially for the cost of living in south Florida. The apartments across the street charged 1600 for a one bedroom, that was my entire take home pay. Where I work now, their pay sets the pace for all the other organizations in the city. The places that don’t have a union but are next to a unionized have to be competitive, because after you factor in pay, perks, retirement, full tuition reimbursement, 5 weeks vacation, one set fee for insurance for all and representation? Why would I EVER want to work for a non-unionized facility? Also keep in mind, unions are for the greater good of all. Hence the name. I remember last contract signing, I had a similar feeling of being pressured to sign a document about retirement that no one was explaining to me, but then I realized.....I won’t be retiring for another 30 years, so why would I block something that doesn’t even apply to me? If the old heads are cool with it then Sure I’ll sign it.

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    I don't think I've ever met a lazy or stupid nurse. Nurses I've worked with at ALL facilities that did not have a union were treated horrific and blamed when things went south when it was truly management's fault for under-staffing. The nurses whom I've worked with, in unionized facilities, were able to safely meet a realistic goal.

    As I said before, no union existed that wasn't sorely needed!

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