DNP vs MSN

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Hi,

I'm posting here vs the student forum because I'm curious what active FNPs think. I have been accepted to 2 different programs. One is a Masters and the other is a Doctorate. The price is actually the same, and both are online enabling me to work full time while attending. The masters is 2 years and the doctorate is 4 or 5 years. I'm curious what the opinions are and pros/cons of each degree. Thank you!

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Great variety of opinions....

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I would like to weigh in on this conversation. I am currently in a post-BSN to DNP program but am dropping out of the DNP portion and will complete the MSN portion only (NP program).

You asked for a pro/con list and it will be different for everyone (although for some reason, I think maybe not so much for this topic), but I would ask you: What do you ultimately want to do? If you are going into the DNP program thinking it will enhance your clinical "worth," "value," etc., that is not so. At least not now and who knows when? If you take a look at the different DNP curricula out there, you will see nothing but management-type/theory classes. The Capstone project is--in my opinion--a research project couched in a fancy name that may or may not be implemented by someone, and who knows by whom, if at all?

Again, consider what it is you want to do. I don't know how old you are, but in all seriousness, you can always get a doctoral degree. And even if you don't in this lifetime, that is okay too, in my opinion. :up:

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Specializes in nursing education.
only dnp if

1. you want to teach

1. you want to teach

1.2 you want to teach.

1.3 you want do do some sort of instruction toward students

1.4 maybe research

1.5 you like being in debt

1.6 you really like writing papers

I would totally not fret over not getting a DNP, there are many other changes that would happen to NP education prior to it being a DNP type program.

Most nurse educators are MSN-prepared. Academia seems to be the only place where you would actually get paid more to have a doctorate, but why not find out whether you enjoy teaching before taking the extra step?

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The more I think about it, it seems like masters is the way to go and go back for the DNP if I decide to teach or it becomes necessary. I'll be able to start practicing 2-3 years sooner and therefore making more money 2-3 years sooner. No reason I can't do the DNP portion while working. Still things to think about, but as of now I'm leaning towards the Masters. I'm 31 almost 32.

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So it isn't official anywhere that the DNP is or will be required by a specific year? Same as what they are saying about ADN vs BSN IN 2020 even though they've been saying it for over 30 years?

I really wanna get my master NP but it would really suck to get close to that point, be an a master NP program and all the while, the standard changes to DNP. I am starting this year at Chamberlain and should finish in 2 years with my BSN. I wanted to wait a year while I get some experience and then get my masters as an NP. Is this a good idea? I haven't chosen a specialty for my NP and don't understand yet if i have to go to a particular program for peds, cardiovascular, endocrine, etc as an NP.

Ivery read just now some websites say there isn't a date set for DNP requirement, another saying by the end of 2015, and some others saying 2022 or 2023.

All this confusion leads me to believe it's all just aggressive hearsay to pressure us into getting it without it being official.

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It's hard to find a MSN/NP program in many states if you're looking for a state school. Many states will now only take DNP students, they've phased out other avenues. And in many cases, in-state tuition is less expensive and has some bricks and mortar elements which some students like, and will also help arrange clinicals. Those can all be big deals to some so it's a shame the MSN is being phased out! I agree too, some DNP is so much fluff. If they would have further clinical/or science based elements that could be part of it, it might be more interesting to nurses.

Nursing can be weird! :-)

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Specializes in nursing education.
So it isn't official anywhere that the DNP is or will be required by a specific year? Same as what they are saying about ADN vs BSN IN 2020 even though they've been saying it for over 30 years?

I really wanna get my master NP but it would really suck to get close to that point, be an a master NP program and all the while, the standard changes to DNP. I am starting this year at Chamberlain and should finish in 2 years with my BSN. I wanted to wait a year while I get some experience and then get my masters as an NP. Is this a good idea? I haven't chosen a specialty for my NP and don't understand yet if i have to go to a particular program for peds, cardiovascular, endocrine, etc as an NP.

Ivery read just now some websites say there isn't a date set for DNP requirement, another saying by the end of 2015, and some others saying 2022 or 2023.

All this confusion leads me to believe it's all just aggressive hearsay to pressure us into getting it without it being official.

The recommendation for DNP by 2020 was just that. It is not a requirement or a mandate. However, many programs converted from MSN to DNP in anticipation. The rumor persists and there was never an official retraction or statement that it is not required and not happening.

As far as ADN entry to practice, you may be thinking of the Magnet 80% BSN requirement or the push for majority BSN by 2020, but ADNs can still sit for the NCLEX RN and still comprise more than half those who enter practice.

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It's hard to find a MSN/NP program in many states if you're looking for a state school. Many states will now only take DNP students, they've phased out other avenues. And in many cases, in-state tuition is less expensive and has some bricks and mortar elements which some students like, and will also help arrange clinicals. Those can all be big deals to some so it's a shame the MSN is being phased out! I agree too, some DNP is so much fluff. If they would have further clinical/or science based elements that could be part of it, it might be more interesting to nurses.

Nursing can be weird! :-)

The DNP program I was accepted to is a state school, but oddly enough the DNP and the MaN programs I got into cost approximately the same despite the MSN being a private school. My husband is a state employee so I get a discount on tuition at state schools which is what brought the price down for the DNP program.

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Specializes in NICU.
So it isn't official anywhere that the DNP is or will be required by a specific year? Same as what they are saying about ADN vs BSN IN 2020 even though they've been saying it for over 30 years?

I really wanna get my master NP but it would really suck to get close to that point, be an a master NP program and all the while, the standard changes to DNP. I am starting this year at Chamberlain and should finish in 2 years with my BSN. I wanted to wait a year while I get some experience and then get my masters as an NP. Is this a good idea? I haven't chosen a specialty for my NP and don't understand yet if i have to go to a particular program for peds, cardiovascular, endocrine, etc as an NP.

Ivery read just now some websites say there isn't a date set for DNP requirement, another saying by the end of 2015, and some others saying 2022 or 2023.

All this confusion leads me to believe it's all just aggressive hearsay to pressure us into getting it without it being official.

I did a ton of reading on this a few years ago and posted many times on it leading up to 2015 because so many people were convinced it was "the law." I had quite a few arguments trying to educate people otherwise...well it's now 2017 and there are still MSN NP programs ;)

First of all, you should realize that the whole "2015 deadline" was a recommendation from the AACN. Just that. A recommendation. The AACN has no authority to require something like this. From what I read, there are about three ways for DNP to be the standard for every incoming new NP.

1. Act of Congress requiring it/insurance for billing.

- Not likely to happen due to shortage of providers in the US

2. State boards of nursing requiring it.

- Considering some states still allow certificate NPs to practice, the idea of this happening (if ever) would take a couple of decades to get all 50 states in line. Unlikely.

3. Schools stop offering MSN and only offer DNP.

- This is the most common scenario. Many schools have simply stopped offering MSN NP programs. Essentially, as less and less programs offer it, there will be less and less graduates entering the workforce. And many of those with MSN may get their DNP later on.

So the death of MSN NPs will be very slow. You'd have to be in the last program offering it in the last cohort going through and then adding a generous 40-50 years on top of that for a career, assuming that cohort never got their DNP. It's possible that ways #1 & #2 could make their way through in that time period or some other way that we haven't thought about.

Bottom line (TL;DR): In all likelihood we will have practicing MSNs for decades to come.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

3. Schools stop offering MSN and only offer DNP.

- This is the most common scenario. Many schools have simply stopped offering MSN NP programs. Essentially, as less and less programs offer it, there will be less and less graduates entering the workforce. And many of those with MSN may get their DNP later on.

Very savvy financial move on the parts of the schools and the icing on this crap cake is that many are now also increasing retention by not only not requiring RN experience but by encouraging students to say in school and start thinking like an Advanced Practice nurse before they were even even a nurse. Sad all around, imo. What I wonder and would count on is some equally savvy schools continuing to focus on MSN in hopes of attracting bright RNs who aren't falling for the above BS and want a cheaper, quicker alternative to the same end game.

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Specializes in NICU.
Very savvy financial move on the parts of the schools and the icing on this crap cake is that many are now also increasing retention by not only not requiring RN experience but by encouraging students to say in school and start thinking like an Advanced Practice nurse before they were even even a nurse. Sad all around, imo. What I wonder and would count on is some equally savvy schools continuing to focus on MSN in hopes of attracting bright RNs who aren't falling for the above BS and want a cheaper, quicker alternative to the same end game.

While I agree to some extent, did you know that many schools are requiring 1,000 clinical hours with their DNP program? I actually quite like that aspect and think it will be good for graduates, nearly doubling the usual 600 hours.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
While I agree to some extent, did you know that many schools are requiring 1,000 clinical hours with their DNP program? I actually quite like that aspect and think it will be good for graduates, nearly doubling the usual 600 hours.

I thought so too until I realized they aren't actually clinical hours as approximately 1/2 are spent doing that capstone thing. If I did a DNP program my masters clinical hours would count toward the DNP required hours so I wouldn't have to do additional clinical hours just log hours doing research for my innovative approach to foot washing or whatever. Its disappointing because initially I thought the idea of a DNP sounded excellent until I realized what it entailed, or rather didn't entail. :(

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