I am working in a large inner city facility. Corporate expounds the benefits of a diverse working culture.
I understand the benefits of a large pool of talent. There is every nationality on Earth represented in this medical center.
Recently, I took report from the recovery room. The nurse had such a thick accent , I had to ask her to spell some of the words she was saying. During the shift, I "worked" with a resident that was also very difficult to understand. He is also from a culture that expects women to walk 3 feet behind them. Needless to say.. the communication was difficult and time consuming.
At the end of the shift, I gave report to a nurse from another culture, that had never heard of the procedure the patient had undergone. Another language barrier ensued as I tried to explain the case.
I find it interesting that they can understand my mid-west American accent, but not vice-versa. The communication effort is time taking away from patient care.
I have seen a Chinese nurse, trying to describe a (emergent) patient's condition, over the phone to an Indian doctor, with a nursing assistant yelling in the background trying to interpret for them.
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
Originally Posted by ohiostudent'RN
I stand behind my couch posting (yes pun intended)
and it IS shameful to spout hateful rhetoric regarding people just because they are not like you.
take my post whichever way you will....
P.s NEWBIE and DARN proud of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, Ruby Vee, somehow I overlooked that one.
Let's discuss this.
"Spouting", indicates the expulsion of an emotionally based statement without consideration for either the meaning of the statement itself, or the full ramifications, if the statement is held to be true.
"Hateful", indicates the summary dismissal of the worth of another, or their argument, simply because they are different, in context, and as noted.
"Rhetoric", as they unfortunately no longer teach students in college, is the
science
of forming, validating, and defending an argument. It has come to be taken to mean incomprehensible gibberish. The obviously missed fact, in that argument, being that it is incomprehensible because the listener is unable to comprehend the positor's argument, to develop their own argument, or to test their (unformulated) argument for validity- "TRUTH", for those that have difficulty following.
So, in context, we may examine my (and others) posts, using this standard. I submit that:
1) My posts have not been "spouting", I have considered both the needs of the patients, other care-givers, and the physcians, and would submit that some standard of perfomance is necessary, regardless of "feelings". I cannot say that I have seen any posts using racial/ethnic/gender-based/etc., slurs. On the contrary, we (stating that some unadulterated accents, occassioanlly our own, pose risk to safe care delivery)are being characterized as, "hateful", "racists", "intolerant", etc. Interestingly, this technique was most effectively used by the fascists and communists to do away with political dissidents- because neither fascists nor communists could develop reasoned social or political philosophies.
I am not calling anyone a communist or nazi, but I would call into question the political leanings of
any
educator who allowed their student(s) the intellectual laziness of this technique.
It is easier to demonize than assess, analyze, refute and defend one's position.
2) My posts are not based on emotional reaction, but on practical, tangible difficulties, "hateful" is both inapprorpiate in description and inept in application.
3) "Rhetoric", yes, I do use rhetoric. I have read some Aristotle and Seneca, and they are my models in rhetoric. I commend them to all.
IF you had read my post.. you would have noted that I was EXTREMELY patient.
I gave them every "break" imaginable.. and finally succeeded in communicating.
My frustration is not the crux of the post... it is.. these efforts take time from patient care and even the best efforts at communication can have disastrous outcomes.
i had a student once who had a medical degree from china, very bright woman, but functionally very limited in english-- about level a-2, if memory serves. i had to fail her in clinical because she couldn't read patient charts, couldn't write an comprehensible note, couldn't understand drug information flyers, couldn't teach her patient how to use his inhaler, and generally could not function in any activity that required literacy in english.
i told her to go to the esl office at our college..she didn't. i recommended that since she lived in the chinatown section of the nearest large city and spoke no english at home, the grocery store, or anywhere else, and read only chinese papers and magazines and watched only chinese tv that she consider getting out of that rarefied atmosphere and immersing herself in english in print and other media. she wouldn't.
i felt terrible for her because she needed to work, but i don't see how she would have been able to. she couldn't read or write the language of instruction, so ...
i had a student once who had a medical degree from china, very bright woman, but functionally very limited in english-- about level a-2, if memory serves. i had to fail her in clinical because she couldn't read patient charts, couldn't write an comprehensible note, couldn't understand drug information flyers, couldn't teach her patient how to use his inhaler, and generally could not function in any activity that required literacy in english.
i told her to go to the esl office at our college..she didn't. i recommended that since she lived in the chinatown section of the nearest large city and spoke no english at home, the grocery store, or anywhere else, and read only chinese papers and magazines and watched only chinese tv that she consider getting out of that rarefied atmosphere and immersing herself in english in print and other media. she wouldn't.
i felt terrible for her because she needed to work, but i don't see how she would have been able to. she couldn't read or write the language of instruction, so ...
why? it's not you fault that she didn't know english. in china you would have to learn chinese? you did the country and maybe her a favor. now maybe she can see that english is needed to work here. who cares if she was bright. if you can't communicate with the patients,what good is she. if she learns some english fantastic. all her patients and staff are not going to learn chinese. i hope she does learn english. she sounds as though she would be an asset to the business.
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
i had a student once who had a medical degree from china, very bright woman, but functionally very limited in english-- about level a-2, if memory serves. i had to fail her in clinical because she couldn't read patient charts, couldn't write an comprehensible note, couldn't understand drug information flyers, couldn't teach her patient how to use his inhaler, and generally could not function in any activity that required literacy in english.
i told her to go to the esl office at our college..she didn't. i recommended that since she lived in the chinatown section of the nearest large city and spoke no english at home, the grocery store, or anywhere else, and read only chinese papers and magazines and watched only chinese tv that she consider getting out of that rarefied atmosphere and immersing herself in english in print and other media. she wouldn't.
i felt terrible for her because she needed to work, but i don't see how she would have been able to. she couldn't read or write the language of instruction, so ...
i would suspect it was because you were gaigin. sometimes these issues are simply a matter of fear relating to new cultural surroundings, home stress, etc.. however, as an m.d., she should have been more capable of managing these stressors than the average housekeeper (if not, she probably shouldn't be practicing in that case, either).
the behaviors you describe are indicative of self-reinforcing racist/bigoted behavior, in the absence of other psychologically or socially traumatic events.
Why? It's not you fault that she didn't know English. If you can't communicate with the patients,what good is she. If she learns some English fantastic. All her patients and staff are not going to learn Chinese. I hope she does learn English. She sounds as though she would be an asset to the business.
While I fully agree, be aware that if this MD finished, they may have gone back to their community, and worked with pts and staff that mostly spoke her language.Yes, they need to speak English, but after they leave school, may not actually have to use very much, other than writing referrals or reading reports, something that may not require as much speed and does not deal with accents or medical/social slang.Just saying.
I happen to know that half of M.D. working in John Hopkin Hospitals speak with accents, if language is a primary concern and can affect the quality of work, than John Hopkin would not hire them.
As someone who currently works at Hopkins, let me clarify a few things.First, yes, a substantial number of our MDs are from foreign countries. And many of them speak with a MINIMAL accent. Even those speak much MUCH better English than the vast amount of Americans. They rarily speak anything but standard English on the floors, unless they are translating for pts or family. I virtually have never heard them speaking in their native language in the public areas.However, I cannot say the same for the vast number of other hospitals for which I have worked, including several other top 10 facilities. I had coworkers at one Ivy league associated facility that were nightmare to translate their "English".
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
quote ygv10 -I happen to know that half of M.D. working in John Hopkin Hospitals speak with accents, if language is a primary concern and can affect the quality of work, than John Hopkin would not hire them.
It's Johns Hopkins. Unless they changed it because so many people call it John Hopkins they gave up and changed their own name. Just a little thing. Like HIPPA, it drives me nuts :)
If you have accent, relax. Most people especially adults are igorance! They don't border to listen attentively when someone who has accent is talking to them! Once they hear your accent, they disregard what you saying and pay little attention to you!
Accent, accent, accent, stop complaining, respect people with accent, open your ears and listen to the person! Everybody has accent whether you like it or not!
If you don't understand the person, simply ask the person to repeat what he/she said!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob72, ASN, RN
685 Posts