Disclipline

Published

We are having a huge problem in my facility with insubordination and just plain rude behavior. The DNS has been there for 4 months and has been out for the last 5 weeks on medical leave so I'm the acting DNS. It seems to be a case of the inmates running the assylum or too many chiefs and not enough braves (as my father used to say in the pre-PC days). We've had meetings with the nurses, the CNA's, everyone and it hasn't gotten better. There is one CNA who continues to be insubordinate. The first time he refused to pick up any extra residents because there was a call out. The nurse, instead of dealing with him, called me. I explained to him about insubordination and told him if he acted this was again, I'd write him up. I explained to all the nurses on the units that THEY are in charge of the aides. So a few weeks go by and I get a call at home from one of the nurses telling me that the same CNA is paging overhead for people to come to his floor to help. I spoke to the charge nurse and told her to either get him to do his work or send him home. I found out on Monday that SHE did 5 patients.

Then again there were several callouts so I asked one of the nurses to send a CNA to the floor who had 3 aides...each unit has 40 residents and each is supposed to have 5 aides. She wanted to know why because that would mean HER aides had extra residents and she didn't think it was fair. I asked her if she thought it was fair that the CNAs downstairs would have many more residents each because they only had 3 aides.I told her I knew it was rotten, but I had to look at the whole building and asked her again to make sure a CNA went to the other unit......long story short, an hour and a half later no one had gone. She told me the staff wanted to speak to me. So up I went into the dining room ...the aides marched in and stared at me. I asked them why they hadn't floated someone and got the same litany of responses about unfair this and unfair that and "you don't know what it's like"...hello people I WAS an aide once and know what it's like and I know that if I don't do what my boss tells me, I'll get written up. They continued to argue so finally I said "Enough...someone goes and that's the end of it for today."

They later called the regional executive director for a meeting which he had with them when the DNS came in for a hour. I asked her what they said...they told her I yelled at them and was 'mean'....I DON'T yell at work. I always speak in a low voice when I'm trying to get someone to listen. She told me that she told them that she wouldn't discuss that particular day. But instead of telling them that they have to do what they are told, she told them to cut me some slack because I was trying to do my job, her job and the ED's job that week. She might as well have told them to pat me on the head because I had PMS or something.

It seems I am the only person in the building who cares about this. We had a dept. head meeting about it and the administrator actually asked if being in charge of CNAs was in the job description we handed out!! Yes, I said, but more importantly, it's in the nurse practice act.

I like to have fun at work, but the residents have to come first.

Wow this is long! So...do all y'all have discipline problems? Do the charge/floor nurses write people up or do the managers have to do it all?

Specializes in Tele/ICU/MedSurg/Peds/SubAcute/LTC/Alz.

Floating is a problem at my facility as well, even with the nurses. Which shows CNA's that it is okay to complain about it. I can understand if you don't feel safe working on another unit as a RN or LPN, you need to protect your license. My input - when I came to this facility I knew I would be floated around, especially if the Manager has to take a cart, they get choice.

Anyway, on the Alzheimer's unit that I work on - the rule is: You cannot take aids from this floor to be put on another. It doesn't go around the table. Some still ask us to float the aids. I had to one weekend and one aid can't stand me anymore. She was told buy the manager the next day that I had to follow my managers rules, but she still thinks that I am insubordinate for doing so.

It even got to the point where the schedule to tell you were you are a few days beforehand has been taken off our board and time clock. Seems people are calling out when they find out they are not on the unit they want to be on. Nurses and CNA's alike. So when you get there you have no idea where you are. It has become a big mess, and I am sure my DON is having a field day.

Get rid of the trouble makers. No if's and or buts. One bad apple ruins the whole bunch. I think your charge nurses need inserviced on respect and how to deal with insubordinate staff. I believe everyone should get along, but yes I know it almost always doesn't happen. Once an employee that causes trouble is fired, the others will eventually see.. Shape up or ship out. We have had this problem at our facility before. It takes time, alot of inservices, alot of communication, alot of teaching how to be in charge, in control, and how to treat staff in certain situations.

Specializes in acute care and geriatric.
Get rid of the trouble makers. No if's and or buts. One bad apple ruins the whole bunch. I think your charge nurses need inserviced on respect and how to deal with insubordinate staff. I believe everyone should get along, but yes I know it almost always doesn't happen. Once an employee that causes trouble is fired, the others will eventually see.. Shape up or ship out. We have had this problem at our facility before. It takes time, alot of inservices, alot of communication, alot of teaching how to be in charge, in control, and how to treat staff in certain situations.

:yeahthat:

When I first started at the LTCF, I started having trouble with one certain male CNA - I learned that the nite nurses had had the same problem when they came - and let him get away with it!!:eek: He felt like I was the 'new' nurse, and because he'd been there longer, he was calling the shots!

Well, it's not my style to buckle under to bullys - so one nite we had a major conflict, because I told him that I wasn't going to tolerate it anymore. He got majorly angry, so I called the administrator, and asked her to come in and deal with him. He was amazed that I didn't get fired on the spot!!

After that, the facility had a meeting with ALL the CNA's (apparently some other shifts had problems with them, too) and were informed what the term 'charge nurse' meant.

Now I get to work with a real sweetheart, and we work as a team.

Specializes in ER/ MEDICAL ICU / CCU/OB-GYN /CORRECTION.
If you are the acting DON does that come with the authority to suspend or fire an employee. If you are given the responsiblity without the tools then you have been set up for failure.....

I really sounds like you have been set up for failure - if you can't discipline employees with the backing of the administration, that's a recipe for disaster. Good Luck!!

I could not agree more

Marc

We also give a bonus of $100 to employees that dont call out in 4 to 6 months

and lastly employees that refuse to come in and help fill a call out (without a good reason) are put on a list for the ADM

Achot - you sound like a super person to work for - I wish we had someone like you in our LTCF. :yelclap:

The only problem I have is punishing someone for not coming in on their day off. If you work your scheduled shifts, but routinely get called in on your off time that really sucks. When do THEY get a break - and why should they have to provide any reason other than 'sorry, this is my only day off, and I'm not working?!!

I don't have a problem with it on an occasional basis, but I wouldn't like to feel like it was my DUTY to come in regularly. I had a manager once that tried that with me - I worked part-time for a reason - and the reason was that I didn't care to work full time!! She felt tho, that my free days should be at her beck and call and would get very nasty when I wouldn't pick up - heck, someone was calling in ALL the time.

We finally had a show-down - she says "Wish I could only work part-time!" I told her that she chose to do the job she had, no one forced her into it. And after that I refused to ever pick up for her again.

Specializes in Home Health and Hospice.

A little off topic but related. I am currently working .6 N as a CNA at a LTC while I wait to take my Nclex. I was offered the CNA position until I receive my license at which time will roll over into a wing nurse. I also work at a home health agency as a HHA and have worked for them for over 3 years. I set up my schedule with them during the days that the LTC said I had off. I did not want to quit because just like the LTC they are short handed. I am still orienting at the LTC. Last night was to be my 3rd shift, 2nd time on that wing but first A shift. I was asked to come off orientation to help out. Which I did with the understandig that I would need to be led by the nose and told what to do. It went ok, but this place is starting to scare me as all the CNAs said I WILL be working overtime and even if I voluntarily fill my schedule to help that I will most likely still be mandated and that I have another job is no excuse to refuse to stay. At my other job they have been angels, as always, and said that they would work around it if it happens. Is having another job a legitimate reason? I also took N because I wanted to be able to put my kids on the bus in the morning. Talking to the nurses they don't seem to have as many problems as the CNAs because they work together fairly well. Should I be worried? Do I have right at some point to refuse a shift because of another job? Even if I had made sure to stay earlier in the week? Heard the mandation list is short and rotation is quick.

Specializes in ICU, Tele, Dialysis.

I started as a CNA when I was sixteen, back in those days (just prior to the invention of the wheel, you know) the nurses were the bosses and they acted like it, there were no negotiations, discussions, they sat, made the plan and gave the orders, it never even entered our minds to say anything, we did our jobs well to keep them happy. Soooo, many moons later I am now an RN and return to this old stomping ground only to find a scene that put me in mind of the "lost boys", the aides did whatever they wanted, argued with the nurses, told the nurses what was needed, necessary and what to do, basically. I was stunned. This seems to be a problem everywhere, I don't know if it's the shifting social climate, the generation thing or what. I know I was raised to respect authority and I still do. I was raised to respect people, period. I don't know what the deal is, but you are not alone. Sorry I don't have any bits of profound wisdom for ya. Hang in there!

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.

and lastly employees that refuse to come in and help fill a call out (without a good reason) are put on a list for the ADM

As frustrating as it may be, I don't think it's appropriate to discipline employees who refuse to come in on a day off to cover a call-off. Time off is time off, and this mentality of a hospital/facility owning an employee's soul is wrong.

I totally share your frustration. I am finding insubordination, arguing, fighting, shouting at work among RCA's/CNA's getting worse. Part of the problem is working short staffed almost every weekend, and more frequently lately, on week days. Picking up the extra workload, doing O/T, its all stressful, but no excuse for behavious I have been seeing. I had a near mutiny on my hands a few weeks ago when staff on one wing were working short staffed yet again. It's sad when I don 't want to go to work because of the atmosphere caused by some staff members. And I am not the only one to feel this way. Sad to know its a problem almost everywhere.

WEllllll....I just took a position of DON in a 120 bed facility. I have so many hopes and dreams for my residents and staff. I know I'm a little rose colored glasses gal, but then - If I can't make their lives better, or at least try, who will? I believe that if staff is treated appropriately and given major kudos that they will feel good about themselves, thus trickeling down to the residents with better care . Of course, education and communication as well, but we need to pick ourselves up and remember that nursing / cna in a long term care/ SNF is a CHOICE. It is a CAREER CHOICE. We are specializing in geriatric nursing and these people need our best, just as a person delivering a newborn would. I know I'll go nuts with all of the things that happen regularly in a building, but it least I'm willing to try. Everyone say a prayer for me - I'm sure I'll need it.

Specializes in Onc/Hem, School/Community.
When I was a CNA at a LTC (back in the day) we always had the same assignments, however, we had our assignments according to how many aids there were working that day. We had them all written on note cards put together with a ring. If there were 4 aids you had xxxx...if there were 3 aids you had xxxxyyy....etc. We also knew there was the chance we may have to float to another floor if they were short handed because it was heavier...I can not fathom ever telling my boss or charge nurse that I was not going to do something whether it was to go to another floor to help out or help out another aid or even take on extra patients. I also learned very early on, as a matter of fact it was when JCHAO had come for a visit and I was asked why a certain pt did not have his lap blanket on..i responded with I don't know he was not my pt....well....I learned that day they are all everyones pts. What I actually meant was I did not know why he did not have it on as I had not done his care that day.

Guess I am just from the old school where you did not do that. I am so glad I do not do LTC anymore. I love the hospital.

:yeahthat:

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