disciplinary nightmare

passing thru · Dec 13, 2003

Agnus, I want to clarify. I did not mean to imply guilt when I asked how she decided to hire an attorney.

Also, a court of law and a board of nursing inquiry are 2 very different situations.

There is no judge, no jury- at the Board of Nursing inquiry.

This is not a trial.

The Board for the most part- is made up of your peers.

People who have RN liscenses and have worked as RN's.

They want to know one thing - - "how did this happen?"

There is one similarity with legal law. Ignorance of the nursing law is not considered a valid defense.

If Rosie's school did not pound that into them/ clarify that they were GN's and not RN's - - see Lydia's post-- # 4 I think - - then, that is a good point for Rosie to make.

Her school would be held accountable for her misunderstanding.

Of course I would take that pin with me.....to show them. But only if the school acknowledged they may have been remiss on pounding it into their heads. And I'd take a couple of classmates with me, maybe 6-7, as many as I could, who would say that they too thought we were RN's because the school failed to inform us. That would be the end of it for Rosie....if she can get 1/2 dozen classmates to say the same. They don't even have to show up. Her attorney could get their depositions. The board would decide in her favor if her classmates say the same. If they say they thought they were RN's the day they received their pins, then Rosie is out of the hot water.

But, if everyone heard they are GN's til boards; everyone except Rosie, well......................that's bad news....

I asked about the attorney, because, if I had to go before the board, I would explain myself and apologise profusely and

accept their decision.

They usually cut the defendants a break....if they can....

austin heart, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2003

Pardon me for saying this, but I think that if you are smart enough to make it through nursing school, then you should be smart enough to know you got to take boards before you can call yourself and RN!. I meen why do ya call it "Registered" nurse, if you don't have to take some sort of test or something to become "Registered"?............I also find it hard to believe that they were not told this in school! I also recived an RN pin when I graduated. Alot of schools have a pining ceremony, but common sence tells you that just because you have the pin does not make it so. I guess I can go get myself a white coat with MD on it and start writing scripts! LOL. I somehow dout that the BON will by the "I didn't know" excuse.

I also don't know if I would agree with the last posters statement that the BON goes easy on defendants if they can......Do we really want the BON to go easy on defendants?

CCU NRS · Dec 13, 2003

Originally posted by passing thru
Agnus, I want to clarify. I did not mean to imply guilt when I asked how she decided to hire an attorney.

Also, a court of law and a board of nursing inquiry are 2 very different situations.

There is no judge, no jury- at the Board of Nursing inquiry.
This is not a trial.

The Board for the most part- is made up of your peers.
People who have RN liscenses and have worked as RN's.

They want to know one thing - - "how did this happen?"

There is one similarity with legal law. Ignorance of the nursing law is not considered a valid defense.

If Rosie's school did not pound that into them/ clarify that they were GN's and not RN's - - see Lydia's post-- # 4 I think - - then, that is a good point for Rosie to make.
Her school would be held accountable for her misunderstanding.

I think she is very wise to hire an attorney in fact so far it is the only thing she has done that shows good judgement.

In any situation where there are many and various Laws, bi-laws, restrictions, rules, scope of practice etc. it is always wise toi hire a person that specializes in know all of those laws and rules.

This student did not show good judgement or even much intelligence in her actions and therefore this is her best move to date.

Secondly anyone that would show up at a BON hearing without representation I would see as totally ignorant.

catrn10 · Dec 13, 2003

When I graduated from Nursing School, I was given a pin that said ETSU School of Nursing. As I lost it in bed linens about a month later, I can't check to see if it said RN. I was hired as a GN. I was told by the hospital to sign as GN. I remember confusion as to how to sign, I knew I was no longer a student, but I also knew I was not an RN. My employer cleared that up nicely. I do not ever remember being told in school how I should sign during the period between graduation and boards. I remember something about getting a temporary license,they don't do that now though. As for your situation, somehow I DO believe it was an innocent mistake, abet a silly one. It would be a shame to take your license away for two years. I have a feeling you may be very young. And I also believe the office may have it in for you. I've seen it happen. Good luck, listen to the advice you have been given. It could be worse.

rosieposie · Dec 13, 2003

again to everyone thank you for your input..its nice to hear from your peers.

I posted my discussion on this board and knew i would get both positive and negative feedback, which is understandable

I also understand that some of you pretty much think I am a moron or something. I understand the mistake I did was wrong. i was honestly misunderstood. and for that im truly sorry, but unfortunately i cannot change the past only learn and live on. I knew I couldnt go out and get a job in a hospital until I received my license. and certainlly could not pass meds, give shots, educate patients and start IV's etc and so on like I do now. I honestly thought we were RN"s once we graduated, but we were not Liscensed Registered Nurses. Thats where my confusion came in.

the only other thing, In my defense, I never practiced as an RN in that job. There is a big difference in that job to where I am now. I did the same job as all the other medical assistants and non-medical individuals.

rosieposie · Dec 13, 2003

also....I'm not expecting to get away from my mistake scott free. Yes everyone should pay for thier mistakes, but mine was certainlly not intentional...

i know i keep saying the same things over and over to everyone. who reply's

thank you to all for your support and responses and for the avdvice as well.

happy holidays to all & talk to ya all soon.....................

deadend · Dec 13, 2003

rosieposie;

I heard an alarm go off in my head when you said that your former employer is being audited by medicare.

This tells me that Medicare not your boss imay be having your license reviewed. When medicare auditors show up they look at licenses, documentation and will randomly pick a nurses license to review. Unfortunately yours was picked and the original date of licensure is public knowledge. The services that the office billed for was most likely for a licensed nurse if you were not licensed at the time of the audit this constitutes fraud. Your bosses are surely trying to cover for themselves and you know what happens to the last man on the totem pole. This is still not an excuse for them to not have verification of your qualifications to practice but they are trying to save face. I am not trying to frighten you but If I were you I would also be preparing for a hearing with the the office of inspector general because this may be next. Does your attorney truly know all the facts?

LydiaGreen · Dec 13, 2003

RosiePosie,

I am truly sorry if you thought that I think you are a moron or was being mean in my responses. I just wanted to point out to you that certain defences could backfire on you. I am still a student and am well aware that I do not know everything that there is to know. One thing I am well aware of, is everytime I make a mistake, I learn from it and become exceptionally good at performing it in the future. We always learn better from our mistakes then we do from things we "get" right off the bat. Really, I hope things turn out well for you. Just a suggestion, maybe to run by your lawyer. Perhaps having you speak with nursing students still in school on this subject would be appropriate both for you, the BON, and future nurses. It would benefit everyone, and hurt no one. I take advice and learn my lessons more quickly and concretely from somone who has been there. Just a thought. Please let us know how things turn out. And I hope that they turn out well for you.

austin heart, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2003

I would like to know what school that you went to! There is no such thing as a "Licensed Registered Nurse". And you can practice as a GN before you take your boards and/or recieve the results. You can do all the dutys of an RN- pass meds, start IV's, do Pt education etc. But....you must sign GN after your name until you recieve the results that you have passed your state boards.

It is just so hard to believe that you were not told this in school!

I had never thought about the medicare people turning you over either. Deadend makes a good point. I would have your lawyer check into that if possable.

Also, was your nursing school NLN accredited?

rosieposie · Dec 13, 2003

here in NJ....you can work as a GN,their called nurse externs, but they cannot pass meds, start IV's or anything. your pretty limited to what they can do. At least that's how it is where I work and in many hospitals in the surrounding hospitals

and yes my school was accredited.

thanks!

rosieposie · Dec 13, 2003

ooohhh and yes You misunderstood what I said about the licensed part.

I know there is not something called a Lic. Regi. Nurse.....an Lic'd practical Nurse , yes

all I meant was we were not Lic'd

lyv33 · Dec 13, 2003

Was you hired as a RN for this job or as an medical assistant? Did you start the job before graduating or after graduating from school and was the job before you took the nclex or after?