disciplinary nightmare

cannoli · Dec 10, 2003

I'm just curious, why did you write RN after your name when you weren't an RN? Also, what was your status at the time?

rosieposie · Dec 10, 2003

hi...I thought we were Registered Nurses, just not Lic'd......I know it was a stupid mistake, but at our graduation, we were given pins that said RN......and as to my status at the time....i hadnt' passed my boards...I Had no licsence. I didnt get my lic until 3/03....this all took place before. ......Thanks for replying....

LydiaGreen · Dec 10, 2003

I have no idea about how a person is to identify themselves anywhere else. I am from Ontario, Canada. We must identify ourselves in the capacity we are in at that moment. In first year nursing school, we added SN to our signatures. In second year, SN2, now - in third year - SN3. After we graduate (before we got our registration/licence), we will sign GN for graduate nurse. All of this was made VERY clear to each and every one of us. Wondering why this was not stated to you clearly?

BarbPick · Dec 10, 2003

How did working in a Doctor's office get the BON's attention?We will try to help you if you give us information.

Barbara

rosieposie · Dec 10, 2003

my former employer wrote a complaint about me to them, because of 2 reasons.

1. i had to contact the labor board to get my final paycheck...(it took 4 months)

2. the office manager wrote a complaint about me in complete retaliation...although shes claiming that she though I had passed my boards which is a complete lie...

rosieposie · Dec 10, 2003

this is to anyone who reads this ....it was an honest mistake....I truthfully was under the wrong impression.

Please understand my despiration for help & answers ...This is going to drive me crazy!!!!!

I now work in a hospital setting, in a Cardiac unit...doing what I love. I dont want to loose the oppourtunity to do this.......thanks & god bless to alll that answer me....

Big Bab's · Dec 10, 2003

We also identified ourselves by our status at the time, while in school "SN", after graduation "GN", after graduation we got "temporary licenses" but until taking the boards we signed "GN", if you were to fail the boards they take away your license til you pass them, at that point your not supposed to use anything behind your name.......Had you taken the boards and not passed or hadn't taken them at all??......and I'm curious to know how this all came to the boards attention also.

This may not be exactly the same thing, but I can kinda relate, I once had an office nurse job and had a patient come in and had me draw her blood, well she forgot to sign the lab order before she left and by the time I saw it, she was long gone and lived 30 miles out of town....so, not wanting to have to inconvienence this little old lady, I signed her name and co-signed with mine, which is what I was TOLD we were supposed to do, by the nurse that trained me at this office....well, evidently she was sorely mistaken, because about 2 wks later the Dr called me into his office and gave me the third degree about "forging a patients signature", well to make a long story short, in the end we BOTH agreed that I no longer worked there.......It really sucked cuz I had NO idea that I wasn't doing the right thing, he kept saying "If you're not sure you should ask!".....and I kept tellin' him "I had NO doubt, cuz YOUR nurses told me thats what I was SUPPOSED to do!"......Thats the only time I EVER left a ANY job on bad terms, it really upset me for a long time.....sooo, I guess I can understand the ignorance cuz I know I was pretty ignorant and was straight outa school too.

Hang in there!..It'll work out....just make it clear to them that it was an HONEST mistake, its not like you thought you were gonna gain in anyway by signing RN, if you got something out of it I could see how they might be upset, cuz that WOULD be deceptive, but an honest mistake, especially one that hurt NO ONE, should just be corrected, learned from, and then everybody move on.

BarbPick · Dec 10, 2003

From what you have explained, the board will question your judgement. I would work on a presentation of how to change the appearance. I agree with Bab's about defined roles, and in school that is usually pretty clear. In your explaination you make it sound like tit for tat, but bottom line, it would not fly if someone was impersonating a police officer.

You need to take responsibility and with some humility assure them you will not violate the trust they and the state put in you.

With this kind of attitude, you might save your license with maybe probation. I am no expert, but I am pretty good at cutting to the chase. Taking responsibility is the best way to make the red tape clear.

I wish you luck

Barbara

CCU NRS · Dec 10, 2003

In my experience with Law and Lawyers it is best to let them do the talking as much as possible. If your lawyer has not already s/he should tell you to speak only when spoken to answer questions accurately and succinctly with yes Ma'am/Sir Or No Ma'am/Sir. These will be Nurses on the Board and they will

#1 be very upset by the fact that you were a graduate but supposedly did not understand that you were not licensed, this is such a complete contradiction of what you should have picked up in school. #2 They will be very unhappy with anything that they percieve as lies or falsehoods, be certain to look the one in the eye that asked the question while answering. #3 They will ask questions in any order they wish, meaning One may ask you did you graduate, another may ask did you take the NCLEX, While answering yes to graduation they may ask did you believe you were an RN, so take your time and answer each question separately.

Talk to your Lawyer at length prior to this proceeding. Being that you are stressing over it now I would talk to the lawyer ASAP to attempt to alleviate some of your fears. Tell the lawyer that you want to know exactly what will happen to best of his/her knowledge or barring that best guess. ask if s/he has handled other cases like this and what happened with those.

BarbPick · Dec 10, 2003

CCU NRS 's post reminds me when I took the medical legal consultant's course. The example they make is how to tesify.

The Lawyer will ask "Barbara, do you know what time it is" and not to blert out yes it is 12:45, but to answer "Yes, I do know what time it is. Answer the question you are asked.

I took the course, and I am glad I did. Some Nurses are doing well in this area of practice , I am happy for the information I learned, God bless the nurses who actually understand all of it, like whistle blower laws.

pieWACKet · Dec 10, 2003

Sorry so long, but I have some points I think will help you listed at the bottom of this treatise.

You know, I can kind of understand what happened to you as you describe it. In nursing school, yes we signed SN. And yes, we had instructors showing us how to sign, and assuring that we had that part down. When I graduated I went to a major metropolitan hospital where all of us new grads were confused and this in the days when a dedicated nursing instructor kept watchful eyes on us. I don't know why, or because of whom, but I remember very clearly her admonishment to all of us to NOT sign RN but to sign GN. I asked, ...what the heck is GN? and was told Graduate Nurse.That's how I knew to do it right.And I remember VERY CLEARLY her peering over my shoulder as I wrote, to ensure I got that part right.

If I had been in a doctor's office without adequate supervision, well, perhaps I would have signed incorrectly too. I don't know. It sort of makes sense that it could happen. a JD is a person who graduated from Law School, it doesn't meen he passed the boards. An MD is a person who graduated from Med School, it doesn't mean they passed the boards. An Architect is someone who finished architecture school, it doesn't meen he's licensed. An Engineer...etc, etc. BUT An RN is a person who is on the REGISTER of nurses. There's the problem, we don't necessarily think about how our professional name got its , well, name.

So, here's the scoop. It appears the doctor's office is very clearly stacking up its side of how it MET ITS OBLIGATION of assuring you were who you signed you were. You are saying they did not, for you are saying that they knew you were not yet registered. CERTAINLY, they could not have VERIFIED you were an RN. The office manager is saying she believed you to be an RN.

Point 1) If so, they/she was neglegient in not demanding to see your license, which you obviously could not have provided. No discussion of the license must have occured, as there is no record of their demanding to see it, your inability to provide it, and your subsequent termination [is there?].

Point 2) YOU brought attention to this job by demanding unforthcoming pay for the job, you say.[do you have copies of the letters or dates of their writing?] WHY would you have risked their wrath if in an already precarious position as implied in point one above?

Point 3) Good heavens, is it possible to get a copy of these notes to know what you wrote? THAT would be something I would ask of the Lawyer, and for her to discuss with you any concern they give her as to your exposure to risk? I mean if they merely say "Telephone Mrs Jones. Informed her of normol Lab Level and need for redraw next week. Appt made" and the record reflects she came in for her appt, what's the big deal? But if they say "Telephone to Mrs Jones. Informed of Low PT level and need to double Coumadin for three days" I'd say your moving into dangerous territory where you were functioning in a description that would be accurate for both a GN and an RN

Point 4) WHO at this office performs the job that the NOTES document you did in the past? WHO at the office did them before? If in both cases it was not an RN, I think you can provide pretty solid evidence that no CURRENTLY LICENSED RN was ever considered necessary for the job, and was never sought. If an RN did or does the duties now that are evidenced by your notes , you probably need to know that.

Point 6) Just as I said before, a lawyer is a JD, but it doesn't mean they passed the boards. An MD finished Med School, but it doesn't mean they passed the boards [they practise for a few years before passing and if they don't, are given second and third chances which if failed, is the point at which they lose jobs]. You were given a pin that said RN. This means that your school implied you were an RN, when in fact it should have said GN. Bring the pin. Bring a picture of you at graduation receiving the pin. Inform there was no discussion in nursing school on how to sign until you passed the exam. And that all of this, however stupid it may appear, was caused by stupid but innocent confusion and NOT purposeful impersonation.

Point 7) as in the very good advice someone else here gave, let your lawyer do the talking, be forthright and to the point, look em in the eyes, be deferential, stand strait. [think DON"T be like those poor people who go in front of Judge Judy and roll their eyes, or open their mouths in obviously fake shock] . BUT FIND OUT WHAT THe lawyer intends to say in your defense.,INSIST. you say she is not talking much. You have 4 weeks, and your paying good money. Tell her that she must be more attentive, that you have good points you want to make sure she understands, and a need to understand how she will present them. If she continues to not provide the kind of attention you need, well, all JDs have their own boards [that is if she's licensed ] !

Point 5) The board may need to put you on probation, and that is not so bad.When asked in the future if your license has ever been suspended or revoked, you can write no.