Will you work during a Pandemic? - page 9

admin note: we just added a poll to this thread today, april 25, 2008, please take a second and vote in the poll so we can have a graphical representation of the responses. thanks scenario: ... Read More

  1. by   gonzo1
    By the time it is recognized that there is a pandemic most of us will already have been exposed inadvertantly through our jobs. By the time it is realized that there is a problem things will be in bad shape.
    I have a friend who was working in the ER at the time of SARS and she caught it. Remember how long it took for anyone to admit there was a problem and something should be done about it?
    If I am alive and can work I will work in what ever capacity I am most needed.
  2. by   indigo girl
    Quote from belle005
    I am a nursing student. What are the "rules" for this type of situation? If you refuse to report to work during a pandemic can your license be revoked? I'm afraid enough of all the HA-MRSA I'll be exposed to, much less bird-flu outbreaks! I am so afraid of dragging all this stuff home to my children. Anyone else worry about that?
    TPTB, as in the CDC and HHS, fully expect that most of us are not going to work. They are aware that we will not have adequate PPE to get thru even one pandemic wave. They know this beforehand. They will not admit to it publicly, but they do know it.

    Since probably fewer than 50% of us right now are agreeing to seasonal flu injection, they can extrapolate such data into a projection of just how few of us would be willing to risk being injected with what will amount to an untried H5N1 vaccine. And we will not be the first in line for any vaccine anyway. And, we know also that there will be no vaccine for at least 4 to 6 months or more into the pandemic.

    And forget being offered Tamiflu as there is not enough for prophylaxis now, and there will be even less later.

    They have given up on us, nurses. The planning is just words on paper mostly designed to buy time. If they wanted to reach us as a group as they have with other stakeholders, and brainstorm solutions with us, they could have done so. They still could. Nurses are practical people. We are pros at problem solving. What we do, frequently makes a difference in terms of patient survival and outcomes.

    But most of all, they have given up on our people, those we have all been trained to care for, because they have deemed it as an impossible task.

    Revoke your nursing license? I think not.

    They will be profoundly blessed to have any nurses left to care for the sick when this is over, and they know that too.

    No one is going to punish you for taking care of your family first.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Nov 14, '07
  3. by   indigo girl
    What are our colleagues to the north thinking?

    A drug company has done this survey with a different scenario offered, one in which
    HCW are protected by antivirals:

  4. by   Nursebarebari
    No, # 1 because I have young children and adult family members that i support and they all that need me. # 2 because of what happened and is happening to world trade center disaster volunteers.
  5. by   indigo girl
    I think that some of us will work, but I understand why many will not.
    No one should ever feel guilty for taking care of family first.

    I also believe that early education and dialogue will help in mounting a
    better strategy so that those of us who can work will have a better chance
    to help more people to survive, and to protect ourselves while doing so.
    Many of us do not work in hospital settings. It is not going to matter.
    They need to begin preparing all of us with training now.

    This is the right thing to do.

  6. by   Agnus
    I can not read this as any more than just hysteria. Just can't take this very seriously. Maybe I have been around this planet too long. Not a very realistic senario at all.
  7. by   indigo girl
    Perhaps the stated scenario was not realistic.
    Let's look at what is.

    Here is a list of deaths in just the one country of Indonesia alone since 2005.
    Look at their ages. They died of influenza, H5N1, bird flu.

    The confirmed deaths are facts, but there are many suspect cases also.
    The case fatality rate in this one country is over 80%.

    WHO-confirmed deaths in Indonesia, by month.
    Plus [notes of deaths which were unconfirmed but suspected H5N1].

    July '05 --- 2 (38M, 8F) confirmed death, [+1 UNCONFIRMED -- 1 death of family member]
    Aug '05 --- 0
    Sept '05 -- 3 (37F, 27F, 23M) confirmed
    Oct '05 --- 1 (19F) confirmed
    Nov '05 --- 4 (16F, 20F, 35M, 16?) confirmed, [+2 UNCONFIRMED -- 2 deaths of family members]
    Dec '05 --- 2 (8M, 39M) confirmed

    Jan '06 --- 4 (29F, 13F, 4M, 22M) confirmed, [+1 UNCONFIRMED -- 39M {Masalis, Jan 2}]
    Feb '06 --- 6 (15M, 22F, 27F, 23M, 27F, 3M) confirmed, [+10 UNCONFIRMED -- 38F {Wati, Feb 6}, 26M {Risma, Feb 9}, 27M {Ubaidillah Ahmad, Feb 12}, 15F {Linawati, Feb 16}, 27M {Dede Wise, Feb 16}, 1Y {Fadli Ahmad, Feb 26}, 35F {NY Ami, Feb 18}, 1Y {Habibah, Feb 20}, 10Y {Nandya Kurnianan, Feb 28}, 11M {Bayu Destianto, Feb 28}]
    Mar '06 --- 3 (12F, 1F, 5M) confirmed, [+7 UNCONFIRMED -- 3M {Wahju Kurniawan, Mar 2}, 10M {Cahyono, Mar 4}, 4M {Harnes, Mar 6}, 42M {M. Yussuf, Mar 14}, <1Y {Yudha Pratama, Mar 16}, 6M {Sasongko Superior Nugroho, Mar 19}, 4? {AG, Mar 28}]

    April '06 --- 2 (24M, 30M) confirmed, [+6 UNCONFIRMED -- 35F {"H", April 2}, 2YO {RNR, April 9}, 23M {April 23, Fahmi Fajar}, 1YO {H, April 22}, {Fakhruddin, April 16 + other family}]
    May '06 --- 12 (17M, 28F, 15M, 10M, 1F, 38F, 12M, 32M, 10F, 18M, 38M, 15M) confirmed, [+5 UNCONFIRMED -- 38F {Praise/Puji Beru Ginting, May 4}, 20M {Aris Ashar, May 20}, 30M {Pulang Young, May 19}, ?M, Papua Province, 10M {Toni Ramdani, May 28}]
    June '06 --- 4 (7F, 13M, 5M, 14F) confirmed, [+9 UNCONFIRMED -- 4 {Yudha, June 9}, 4 {Yudhi, June 10}, 5 {Masyani, June 11}, two sisters of 15yo {June 14 and June 22}, 1M {Adtya, brother of Rizal, June 20?}, 17? {Andri Winarti, sibling of Akira, June 15}, 56F {Hj Sukria, mother of Akira, June 22}, 1F {Ma, from Takaran, June 5}]

    July '06 --- 2 (3F, 44M) confirmed, [+2 UNCONFIRMED - 8? {Tyo Styoningpuji, July 6}, 4M {Sardi, July 31}]
    Aug '06 --- 4 (16M, 17F, 9F, 35F) confirmed, [+5 UNCONFIRMED -- 13F {Rubiyah, Aug 1}, 20M {Misbah, cousin of Umar Aup, August 6}, ?F {wife of Suwardi, Bekasi, Aug 10}, 9F {Dea Amalia, Aug 14}, Dede {villager in Cicadas}]
    Sept '06 --- 3 (11M, 9M, 20M) confirmed, [+3 UNCONFIRMED -- 2M {Risman Husni, N. Sulawesi, Sept.13}, 23M {Indra Jayakusuma (older brother of Zakaria), Sept. 24}, 11F {Marlina Bt Sitorus (child of family of 5 in RSU Adam), Sept 18}]

    Oct '06 --- 3 (27F, 11M, 67F) confirmed, [+7 UNCONFIRMED -- 1F {Farida, possible measles, Oct. 6}, 2 months {Fajrin (from Bontopaddingin, Sulawesi) Oct.15}, 5 {M. Pious (RSUD Takaran, from A the Buji Frog), Oct. 15}, 4 {"The Dawn" (from Parangtambung, Sulawesi), Oct. 16}, 7 {Wiji Riyati, Oct. 21}, 4 {Yusuf Maudana, Oct. 21}, ? {from S. Sulawesi, admitted with Ilyas, Oct. 31]
    Nov '06 --- 2 (2M, 35F) confirmed, [+3 UNCONFIRMED - 17M {Juanto/Juwarto, in Public Hospital Purkwokerto, E. Java, Nov. 6}, 6/2 child {OS/OR/SS, Medan, RSUP Adam, Nov. 15}, "a child" {from Ciledug, Tangerang of Banten - older brother in hospital, child died Nov. 24}]
    Dec '06 --- 0 confirmed, [+1 UNCONFIRMED - 3F {Febri, from Benai Subdistrict, RSUD Telukkuatan, Riau, died 12/13}]

    Jan '07 --- 6 (14M, 37F, 22F, 27F, 32F, 6F) confirmed, [+5 UNCONFIRMED - 46F {Sumiah unnamed patient, from RSDK, Semarang, died 1/13}, ?? {Unamed patient, died 1/16}, 20F {Okta/Otafika, died in RSPI Sulianti Saroso, N. Jakarta, died 1/21}, 10F {Joni Iskandar, Pancawara Village, Way Serdang Subdistrict, Tulang Bewang, Sumatra died 1/30}, age? {Lengkong Makarao, in RS Prof. Kandou, Manado, North Sulawesi, died 1/30}]

    Feb '07 - 1 (20F) confirmed, [+4 UNCONFIRMED - 9M {Supandi, died in Dr. Slamet Garut, died 2/11}, 26M {Tata Mulyana, died in Hasan Sadikin on 2/21, policeman from Ciruluk Village}, 8-month-old {Nasiah, died in Mahammad Jamil on 2/23, West Sumatra}, 12M {Casmudi bin Ali, died on 2/27, from Bangas, Indramayu, W. Java}]

    Mar '07 - 7 (20F, 32M, 22F, 16M, 39M, 14M, 29F) confirmed, [+3 UNCONFIRMED - 46M {Tambai Hadi, date of death unknown, younger brother of WH (confirmed), died after two weeks of sickness}, 17F {Nesya, died 3/30?, from West Sumatra}, 6/16F {Siti Rohayati, died 3/30 in Abdoel Moeloek Hospital, Banda Lampung, from Tulang Bawang Regency}]

    April '07 - 3 (23F, 15F, 29M) confirmed, [+5 UNCONFIRMED - 3M {Edward, died 4/3? in RS Prince?, Grogot, from Balikpapan}, 2M {Erpan, died 4/3? in RS Prince?, Grogot, from Balikpapan}, 4F {Raisya/ "RZ", died 4/7 in Padang City, from Lubuk Begalung Subdistrict}, 48M {Yanto, died 4/16 in RS Handsome Sadikin Bandung , from Karanganyar Village}, 12M {Angga Saputra, died 4/30 in RSUD Moewardi, Solo, from the Grobogan Regency, Central Java}, ]

    May '07 - 5 (29F, 26F, 5F, 45M, 16F) confirmed, [+1 UNCONFIRMED - 26M {Suyatno/ Syt, died 5/3 in RSUD Wonogiri, from Tiyaran, Sukoharjo Subdistrict of the Bulu Regency (Hair)}]

    June '07 - 1 confirmed (26M), [+2 UNCONFIRMED - 11M {"YES", died 6/1 in RSUP Adam Malik Medan, from Asahan Regency}, 1F {Galli, died 6/26 in Daerah Public Hospital (RSUD) Indrasari, Rengat, from Ukui, Pelalawan}]

    July '07 - 1 confirmed (6M), [+1 UNCONFIRMED - 45F {Watini/ Watinah, died 7/23 in RSU Dr Soetomo Surabaya, from Bukur Village, the Sumbergempol Subdistrict, Tulungagung}]

    Aug '07 - 3 confirmed (29F, 17F, 28F), [+9 UNCONFIRMED -5 months {Dila/Zila Zazila, died 8/1 in RSUD Arifin Achmad Pekanbaru, from the Simpang Petai Village, Kecamatan Singingi, Riau Province}, 33M {Surya Seorang, died 8/5 in Gedung Bedah Pusat Terpadu (GBPT), employee of RSU Dr Soetomo, from Surabaya}, 5F {Dian, Luh Putu`s five-year old child, died on 8/3 in RSUD Negara, from Dangin Tukad Aya Village, Negara, Kabupaten Jembrana, Bali}, 42F {Ni Ketut Sari Asih, died 8/25 in RS Sanglah, Denpasar Bali, from Jalan Yudhistira}, 4 Residents of Pekon Karang Buah and Sawang Balak, Pulau [Island] Tabuan, {Fauzi (25), Ja'far (50), H Asnah (60) and Marhakim (60) - may have had Typhus and/or Malaria?}]

    Sept '07 - 2 confirmed (33M, 21M), [+1 UNCONFIRMED -- 30F {Ida Khadijah, died 9/22 in RSHS Hasan Sadikin, Bandung, from Indramayu, West Java}]

    Oct '07 - 3 confirmed (12M, 44F, 5F), [+2 UNCONFIRMED - 10F {Gozi Sultia Ningsih, died 10/20 in RSUD Arifin Ahmad, Riau Province, from Berempan Hulu, Kabupaten Siak}, 17F { Riri Rianti, aunt of Gozi (10F), died 10/11, in Gawat Darurat, Riau Province, from Berempan Hulu, Kabupaten Siak}]

    Nov '07 - 2 confirmed (30F, 31M), [+1 UNCONFIRMED - 20M {Deni S, died 11/8 in RS Sanglah, Bali, from Kedonganan, Badung, reportedly died of severe pneumonia}]

    This information compiled by CurEvents.com/momcares
  8. by   indigo girl
    A serious debate requires someone like the Director-General of the
    World Health Organization to tell it like it is.

    Dr. Margaret Chan, MD:

  9. by   gr8hart
    Quote from indigo girl
    A serious debate requires someone like the Director-General of the
    World Health Organization to tell it like it is.

    Dr. Margaret Chan, MD:


    WOW! What a speech. I admire Dr. Chan for telling it like it is.....but I also noticed this was broadcast in Feb. 2007. The wheels still aren't getting greased fast enough as far as I'm concerned. For example.....are our hospitals, nursing homes, long-term care facilities stocking up on PPEs? The health care system should be prepping all available space for beds.......but instead.....they are closing hospitals and other facilities all across the country! What gives?
  10. by   indigo girl
    It is only natural that some would be skeptical about a possible event
    that has never happened in their lifetime. There is also a place for admitting
    that you do not know everything just because you never saw it before.
    When you get strong messages of warning from the Director-General of the
    WHO and agencies like the CDC and HHS, laughing it off is not in anyone's
    best interest particularly not any family members that might be dependent
    upon you guessing right. Being unprepared can have serious consequences.
    There will always be some that just can not believe that anything like this
    could ever happen to them, not in America, not in this century, not with our
    current health care capabilities...

    Even if you are not under forty years old, you probably have family members
    and friends that you care about that are. Do you feel lucky?

    This link is telling you the truth. America needs leadership. And,
    so does nursing because we have none.
    When are we going to get
    serious about taking care of ourselves?

    On Friday the HHS (Department of Health & Human Services) released
    their Pandemic Toolkits. These are essentially small PDF files (20 in all)
    that may be used by organizations, agencies, and private individuals to
    promote pandemic awareness and preparation in their community or


    Quote from www.pandemicflu.gov/takethelead/full_toolkit.pdf

    Preparing for a pandemic influenza outbreak involves everybody. The threat of pandemic influenza is real, and America needs leadership from respected community members to prepare our towns and cities, reduce the impact of pandemic flu on individuals and families, and reduce or even prevent serious
    damage to the economy.
    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other public health experts agree that it is not a question of IF a pandemic will occur, but WHEN it will occur. If America is not adequately prepared, pandemic flu could seriously affect everyone economically.

    Government alone can't prepare the nation for pandemic flu; this challenge requires your help. As a leader in your community, you can play a powerful role in encouraging those whom you can influence, whether they be employees, patients, or group members, to prepare by providing information and guidance and by preparing yourself.

    The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is working with medical professionals, and business, community, and faith-based leaders across the nation to provide them with the simple tools they can use to educate Americans on ways to protect themselves and their families.
  11. by   azhiker96
    Quote from indigo girl
    It is only natural that some would be skeptical about a possible event
    that has never happened in their lifetime. There is also a place for admitting
    that you do not know everything just because you never saw it before.
    This is so very true. Look at all the people who never wore seatbelts until it was mandated by law. Even though head injuries cause many deaths in car crashes, it seems only NASCAR and road race drivers wear helmets. Backyard pools without fences, chemicals stored under sinks where kids can get into them, heavy drinkers, smokers. So many times people take risks because they don't think an event will ever happen to them. Even if the government took this seriously I doubt they could convince the public we need to spend the money it would take to be fully prepared. Still some preparation is better than none.
  12. by   bigjim
    Quote from Agnus
    I can not read this as any more than just hysteria. Just can't take this very seriously. Maybe I have been around this planet too long. Not a very realistic senario at all.

    You must not have been on the planet that long, or else you would have met some people who could have told you about the 1918 flu pandemic, where up to 40 million people died. And there are more than three times the number of people now that there were then, which could mean over a hundred million deaths with the same rate of infection and death.
  13. by   clee1
    Quote from canoehead
    "taken care of" with no PPE or meds available? What are they referring to when they say that? Probably a ride to and from and meals on duty, but not much more. Yes, I think I would go in anyway, but I'd be pretty realistic about not expecting any thanks or recognition. I haven't heard of any of the nurses that stayed during Katrina getting anything special, and I often wonder if they were paid for that last week or so. Anyone know?
    All New Orleans HCA employees were paid fully; and many were given free petty cash and plane tickets after they got out of the city.