Difference between LPN and RN knowledge?

[stewiegriffin]

I'm in the traditional ASN program at my school. Half of my classmates are on the traditional track and the other half are transitioning from LPN.

One of our careplan questions is, "What RN knowledge did you apply today?" I wasn't worried until the LPN's in the class kept getting low marks for their answers to this question.

The instructor keeps telling the LPN's that they have to start thinking like RN's now. They were told that their careplans only showed their LPN knowledge.

For those of us who aren't already LPN's, how do we even know how to answer the question? I really couldn't explain the difference between RN knowledge and LPN knowledge.

At this stage in the game, the transition students have way more education than those of us going the traditional route.

I'm very confused!

[Gauge]

I even said that in my post, my mother has alot more experience than I do, I never said I know more than anyone. I know things are different in real world rather than textbook, please don't treat me as if I am that naive, I've been in the military for nearly 7 years.

My point was only that there is no way that an LPN can learn in 1 year what an RN or BSN learn in 2-4. The level of depth in my BSN program is far greater than what my mother had in her LPN program, for which she did not have to take any prereqs. I'm not implying you do not know your job or are a mindless robot, only that the depth of knowledge can not possibly be obtained in a 1 year LPN program as a 4 year BSN program, just as I do not know the same material as a NP or a CRNA after 4 years of a BSN program.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

My LPN program required the same pre- and co-reqs as the RN, with the exception of A&P.

I just finished an RN program and will be taking the boards in November. Delegation is definitely to only big difference I see.

[flightnurse2b, LPN]

I even said that in my post, my mother has alot more experience than I do, I never said I know more than anyone. I know things are different in real world rather than textbook, please don't treat me as if I am that naive, I've been in the military for nearly 7 years.

My point was only that there is no way that an LPN can learn in 1 year what an RN or BSN learn in 2-4. The level of depth in my BSN program is far greater than what my mother had in her LPN program, for which she did not have to take any prereqs. I'm not implying you do not know your job or are a mindless robot, only that the depth of knowledge can not possibly be obtained in a 1 year LPN program as a 4 year BSN program, just as I do not know the same material as a NP or a CRNA after 4 years of a BSN program.

my LPN program was 2 years. and it had prereqs. everything is crammed. we took fundamentals 1,2,3...adult health 1,2,3...acute care 1,2,3... peds, ob, psych and LPN leadership. our semesters were shorter, it's called "boot camp terms" at my school... we go all through summer and only had one break for c-mas. but we got it alll in there. i get pinned saturday :) the bridge for me to become an RN is 2-3 semesters, because my program covered sooo much content and prereqs are completed.

i'm not saying i know everything that every RN knows, because i don't. and i totally suck at delegating. but when it comes to knowing why i do something, you bet your tail i do. i also function independently as a paramedic which gives me scope to do things even an RN can't do. you never know what the LPN did before they were the LPN.

correct me if i'm wrong..... the nursing knowledge you obtain in a BSN program is over 2 years. the first 2years are gen ed. prereqs, the 2nd two years are nursing courses. i am in no way putting down a BSN education, i'm married to someone with one and i hope to have one someday.

[CuriousMe]

my LPN program was 2 years. and it had prereqs. everything is crammed. we took fundamentals 1,2,3...adult health 1,2,3...acute care 1,2,3... peds, ob, psych and LPN leadership. our semesters were shorter, it's called "boot camp terms" at my school... we go all through summer and only had one break for c-mas. but we got it alll in there. i get pinned saturday :) the bridge for me to become an RN is 2-3 semesters, because my program covered sooo much content and prereqs are completed.

i'm not saying i know everything that every RN knows, because i don't. and i totally suck at delegating. but when it comes to knowing why i do something, you bet your tail i do. i also function independently as a paramedic which gives me scope to do things even an RN can't do. you never know what the LPN did before they were the LPN.

correct me if i'm wrong..... the nursing knowledge you obtain in a BSN program is over 2 years. the first 2years are gen ed. prereqs, the 2nd two years are nursing courses. i am in no way putting down a BSN education, i'm married to someone with one and i hope to have one someday.

My BSN nursing program is 1 year of prereqs and 3 years of nursing school, with a minimum of 9 credits of nursing classes per term. We do labs, simulation labs and clinicals every term and the clinicals in our final year are mostly spent doing preceptorships.

[Gauge]

Our program is setup for 1 year of prereqs and 3 years of nothing but nursing classes (full time each semester). I have 2 years of prereqs because I was a criminal justice major my first year in college before I decided to switch to nursing, so I had to do the prereqs for nursing and get accepted.

Most classes have lecture/lab/clinical time. So for a 6 semester hour class we generally have 6-8 hours of lecture, 2-3 hours of lab, and a 6-8 hour clinical every week.

You'll have to be careful as far as your scope of being a paramedic is concerned. At the hospital where I do clinicals there was an RN/paramedic and a client who needed intubating and anesthesia couldn't get him. The paramedic was allowed to intubate in other states per his license and had done it many times before, but in the current state he was working and as the RN title that he was working under in the ED he was not allowed to intubate. He got in there and intubated the guy and saved his life, which was a good thing, but admin got on him pretty hard because it was out of his scope of practice.

[picurn10]

I'm currently in LPN school, set to bridge immediately to RN upon completion this summer.

Because I never planned on being an LPN (just went this route to save time) I didn't know much about the differences. I was surprised to learn that:

95% of my LPN class has ALL of their pre-req's for RN done, and about 1/3 of us have bachelors degrees (myself included). So even though we've got 1yr of nursing training, we've all had bio, micro, nurtrition, chem. a&p I and II, psychology, english, history, etc... Since this is the case for even those who don't plan to go on to RN right out of the gate, it's not true that LPN's don't understand the "why" behind what we do. You'd have to be pretty slow not to put 2&2 together with all the years of education we've had.

All of our MSN instructors started as LPN's and they have all told us that the only difference between LPN and RN school was the focus on leadership and care plans. Actual skills training was basically identical. For each of them NCLEX-PN was harder than NCLEX-RN.

All of my local hospitals hire LPN's except for 1, and LPN's get hired on all floors except ICU's and ER's. The RN's base pay is only $3-5 more per hour than new RN pay I actually know a LPN who was making more straight out of school than the new hire RN's because she worked in the facility as a nurse tech.

We do write/create care plans in LPN school and we were told that we'll be held to the same standard as for RN since it's a skill we'll likely need down the line. LPN's can only assist in writing care plans in a clinical setting in my area.

We can delegate to CNA's, CMA's, and AUA's but obviously not to RN's. I thought that was funny they taught us that Duh! I don't think that one would go over very well.

We have more clinicals hours in our year as LPN's than any of the ADN programs do in both years combine I have a friend currently in a bridge program and she said she felt very confident/prepared in a clinical setting because of the number of hours she had. We do 2 to 3 8hr clinicals per week, plus the last month of our program is a full 40hr/wk of clinicals, and our program runs 11mo instead of the traditional semesters.

AFA I know in my state: LPN's can't push IV meds, can only hang blood in certain facilities, one facility I know of doesn't allow LPN's to drop NG tubes anymore though we are trained to, and do so in clinicals. We can't do arterial blood draws, and maybe a few other things... I'm learning as I go. Don't know if that's helpful at all. I'm very interested to see the differences for myself though.

[jjjoy, LPN]

I am in a BSN program and the way our instructors explain it to us is like this: LPNs know how to do things, but RNs know why they are being done.

This is what our instructors told us, too. Since then, though, I've learned it's not that clear cut. I've learned that many LPN programs do cover care planning and pathophys and pharmacology - as opposed to just teaching 'how' to do things, which is what had been implied to us BSN students. And I was also disappointed at how little in depth our own RN/BSN program went into pathophys and pharmacology. Covering 600 pages of content in 5 weeks doesn't lend itself to in depth comprehension.

It's my understanding that the LPN role was formally created around WWII due to nursing shortages in order to get more nurses working as quickly as possibly. It was designed that they were to take care of the more basic nursing tasks with a "professional" nurse directing and overseeing their work. However, because LPNs cost less than RNs and because of continuing nursing shortages, LPNs have taken on more and more nursing responsibilities, to the point that in many environments, you can't see a functional difference between the LPN and RN.

Meanwhile, LPN programs knew that expectations for LPNs role were growing and the curriculums came to more closely match that of traditional RN programs. Meanwhile, RN programs wanted to turn out competitive graduates so their curriculums came to more closely match that of BSN programs, meaning gen ed, leadership classes, nursing theory, etc. So now, the actual practical nursing component of nursing education between LPN and RN are more similar than perhaps had originally been envisioned, even while the RN usually has about 2 more years of coursework under his/her belt.

That's my interpretation so far anyway. : )

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

I did not work as an LVN but no way could you cram the 4 years of education I got into 18 month. Have you looked at the textbooks? The algebra for LVN's in my area is on the level of high school math. Students do not earn college credit for that course - but it is the one they use in LVN school to give meds.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

I did not work as an LVN but no way could you cram the 4 years of education I got into 18 month. Have you looked at the textbooks? The algebra for LVN's in my area is on the level of high school math. Students do not earn college credit for that course - but it is the one they use in LVN school to give meds.

What do you use? Calculus?

It really depends on the school.

[avahnel, ASN, RN]

My ADN program does not even have a math requirement at all.

[Alternator81]

I mean no disrespect, but I do not understand how you can deliver safe care when you don't understand the underlying pathophysiological processes of your patient's disease. It just seems to be one of the most important part of being a nurse.

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

i even said that in my post, my mother has alot more experience than i do, i never said i know more than anyone. i know things are different in real world rather than textbook, please don't treat me as if i am that naive, i've been in the military for nearly 7 years.

my point was only that there is no way that an lpn can learn in 1 year what an rn or bsn learn in 2-4. the level of depth in my bsn program is far greater than what my mother had in her lpn program, for which she did not have to take any prereqs. i'm not implying you do not know your job or are a mindless robot, only that the depth of knowledge can not possibly be obtained in a 1 year lpn program as a 4 year bsn program, just as i do not know the same material as a np or a crna after 4 years of a bsn program.

i have a question for ya gauge...how is it fair or even possible to allow students with prior bachelors degrees in other fields to be allow to go through an advance program & obtain a bsn degree in one years time without having any prior nursing knowledge/experience of at least a lpn? and in some cases, these same students go through an advance bsn and direct msn entry program without again having any *prior* nursing knowledge/experience. if such students are "allowed" to enter said advanced degree programs, are expected & can complete their bsn programs within one calendar year & their msn within two...why then is it so hard to accept that some lpn programs are more advanced than others? why is it so hard to believe that lpns can learn and understand the nursing process within that said year of education/training?

cheers :cheers:,

moe