Did I do the right thing?

Magsulfate, BSN, RN · Jun 25, 2009

:bowingpur:bowingpur:bowingpur

You are such a trip!!!! ROTFL!!:icon_roll
Jack

MizChelleRN · Jun 25, 2009

We defecate on our colleagues with addiction more than any other group.

I'm sorry, this just didn't get enough LOVE....LOLOLOL

jackstem · Jun 25, 2009

I'm sorry, this just didn't get enough LOVE....LOLOLOL

I try to be as subtle as possible. :rolleyes: :nuke:

Jack

Keysnurse2008 · Jun 25, 2009

excellent!! well done my friend!! well done!!
anytime! if i can be of any further assistance just give a shout.
jack

i read someof your responses to threads...and also some of these links you gave me. it kinda makes more sense now. i have always wondered what the attraction was for some to drugs,.i mean i dont exactly see any well educated nurse looking at a homeless crack addict , unkempt,...etc etc saying to theirselves "gee whiz why cant i look like that?". lol...so thank you it helped. the way you describe it....it is almost like a jigsaw puzzle brain....missing one tiny peic eof the puzzle. it functions everyday unaware their is a missing peice ....till one day it gets the missing peice temporarily ( the alcohol or drug).....and once the peice is removed.........you continue to search for it( the missing peice) so that you will be " whole" again. i mean i had never thought of it like you put it...so thanks. you think about schizophrenics and clinical depression and the whole chemical imbalance they have ........so ....it makes sense. thank you....just heard today he is wanting to leave his program. says he now doesnt have a problem......but the people with his state peer assistance group here in tx have probably dealth with that before.

jackstem · Jun 25, 2009

i read someof your responses to threads...and also some of these links you gave me. it kinda makes more sense now. i have always wondered what the attraction was for some to drugs,.i mean i dont exactly see any well educated nurse looking at a homeless crack addict , unkempt,...etc etc saying to theirselves "gee whiz why cant i look like that?". lol...so thank you it helped. the way you describe it....it is almost like a jigsaw puzzle brain....missing one tiny peic eof the puzzle. it functions everyday unaware their is a missing peice ....till one day it gets the missing peice temporarily ( the alcohol or drug).....and once the peice is removed.........you continue to search for it( the missing peice) so that you will be " whole" again. i mean i had never thought of it like you put it...so thanks. you think about schizophrenics and clinical depression and the whole chemical imbalance they have ........so ....it makes sense. thank you....just heard today he is wanting to leave his program. says he now doesnt have a problem......but the people with his state peer assistance group here in tx have probably dealth with that before.

i'm glad the info was helpful. and yes, i guarantee you the board of nursing has heard it all before, which unfortunately makes it difficult for nurses with chemical dependence who work a solid program of recovery. part of the symptoms of addiction includes pathological denial, emotional instability, compulsive use of their drug of choice (or others when they can't get the one the want), lying about use and other issues, especially when it comes to their drug of choice. once the "crisis" that got them into treatment passes, their denial pops back up...stronger than ever.

it takes 18 months or more of abstinence for the brain to recuperate. this is why the treatment modality of choice is inpatient for 30 - 90 days (the longer the better). it provides the protection they need and assists them in learning about the disease when their brain has had time to "calm down".

as i've said in other posts and in my lectures...we do everything bass-ackwards when it comes to this disease. when discussing treatment of a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease...we know the earlier we recognize it and begin definitive treatment, the better the chance for remission. what do we do with addicts? wait until they "hit bottom", and then treat them with less than optimum protocols. it's as though everyone loses their mind when it comes to this disease. it's about as unethical and unprofessional as you can get. can you imagine treating someone with hiv/aids, epilepsy, hansen's disease, or a sexually transmitted disease in this fashion? my goodness! there would be all sorts of protests and outrage! justifiably so. this is exactly why i do what i do.

jack

Magsulfate, BSN, RN · Jun 26, 2009

Well, if he wants to be in denial, and he can't at this point stay in treatment, then there goes his nursing license. After that, he might as well give his kids over to CPS and start digging his own grave.

I know this sounds negative, but dang.. sometimes I am just tired. I think I had a long day . I need to go to bed now.

Keysnurse2008 · Jun 26, 2009

i'm glad the info was helpful. and yes, i guarantee you the board of nursing has heard it all before, which unfortunately makes it difficult for nurses with chemical dependence who work a solid program of recovery. part of the symptoms of addiction includes pathological denial, emotional instability, compulsive use of their drug of choice (or others when they can't get the one the want), lying about use and other issues, especially when it comes to their drug of choice. once the "crisis" that got them into treatment passes, their denial pops back up...stronger than ever.
it takes 18 months or more of abstinence for the brain to recuperate. this is why the treatment modality of choice is inpatient for 30 - 90 days (the longer the better). it provides the protection they need and assists them in learning about the disease when their brain has had time to "calm down".
as i've said in other posts and in my lectures...we do everything bass-ackwards when it comes to this disease. when discussing treatment of a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease...we know the earlier we recognize it and begin definitive treatment, the better the chance for remission. what do we do with addicts? wait until they "hit bottom", and then treat them with less than optimum protocols. it's as though everyone loses their mind when it comes to this disease. it's about as unethical and unprofessional as you can get. can you imagine treating someone with hiv/aids, epilepsy, hansen's disease, or a sexually transmitted disease in this fashion? my goodness! there would be all sorts of protests and outrage! justifiably so. this is exactly why i do what i do.
jack

so...it sounds like he is doing exactly what alot of people do. admit when caught- then deny later. ok?...when does it get to the point where they take responsibility? he told his mom today that he would just move back home to his hometown in a different state and work there as a nurse. can you do that? i thought if one liscense was in trouble( potential) then they are all linked and all in trouble. arent they? he is like ready to get the he** outta dodge. i dont quite know what to think about it...kinda makes me think i got suckered into thinking he was serious about getting help. i am hoping he is just in shock though.

you are very informative....the way you guys explain things it kinda makes sense. like now i understand why they told him if he signed their forms then his ability to give scheduled drugs would be taken away. so...i know he said they'd randomly test for alcohol...but what about other drugs. in theed we do a blood etoh level.....so are they now going to assume he will change to a different drug and do random drug screens in addition to blood alcohol levels?

ok...so what if he moves and doesnt sign the stuff. i mean can you do that? his mom is acting like they are mistreating her little boy and i keep telling her to just let him work this out on his own. wow...up to 90 days inpatient? that sucks. but...if that is what it takes then thats what it takes. so...what happens during the 90 days? is his liscense in limbo, suspended, revoked? and what about at the end of the 30-90 days inpatient...then what? does he automatically start back working..or is there some follow up stuff he has to do?

you know...they should make you , or others likeyou ,...who have such a wealth of insight and information go to every nursing school and inservice nursing students ....and at least every 3 years after that . to reiterate the information...bc ....i honestly have never had anyone explain things like you guys. i always have looked at alcohol and drug users as a personal failure. dont be mad....let me explain! i did. i always thought it was a personal character flaw. i did. until...it happened to my buddy. then...i knew something was missing in my knowledge base...bc this guy is not just a good nurse...but a stand up guy. he has given families money for cab fare home when they get discharged and dont have any money. he has left on lunch break and got food for patients kids when he knew they had no money. he is a great guy. so this didnt make sense...because i dont see any character flaws in him. so there went my whole " idea" out the window. it is different when you know someone that is going through this. he would not have chosen this. he just wouldnt have..it isnt him. so there went my whole hypothesis on alcohol and chemical dependants out the window because it was based on basically ...ignorance on my part...because no one had truly broke it down like you guys have.

that...makes me sound stupid doesnt it? yep...i bet it does.

ok..final question.....when i talk to him should i completly avoid discussing anything about his program?or ask about it? becasue it is kind alike ignoring the elephant in the room if i dont ask anything.....

Keysnurse2008 · Jun 26, 2009

well, if he wants to be in denial, and he can't at this point stay in treatment, then there goes his nursing license. after that, he might as well give his kids over to cps and start digging his own grave.
i know this sounds negative, but dang.. sometimes i am just tired. i think i had a long day . i need to go to bed now.

thats ok...its kinda like how i felt about the situation too. i was like " dude...they are trying to help"...but his mom thinks they are persecuting her litttle boy. so...i dont know how all this will work out. i really dont know what to say to him. do i say - hey get a grip...they are trying to help you"...or do i just aoid the whole topic of where he is at and what brought him there?"

and thanks...for talking the time to respond and answer questions. because no one has ever broken things downlike you guys have.:bowingpur

Magsulfate, BSN, RN · Jun 26, 2009

so...it sounds like he is doing exactly what alot of people do. admit when caught- then deny later. ok?...when does it get to the point where they take responsibility?

when he realizes that he has a problem. it may take years. it may take his loved ones getting hurt, over and over for years before he sees what he's doing is not normal and that he's addicted to alcohol.

it's sad, but it's true.

he told his mom today that he would just move back home to his hometown in a different state and work there as a nurse. can you do that? i thought if one liscense was in trouble( potential) then they are all linked and all in trouble. arent they?

yes, technically they are. it may take a few months for texas to send info to the other states he holds a license in, but they will do it, and it will not be pretty. at that point he will have no other choice but to face the board and their actions. if he has already been offered tpapn, and has refused, most likely (and historically) texas bon will revoke his license and every other state that he holds a license in will follow suit. he may be able to get away with working for a few more months or even up to a year before this happens, but it will happen. he cannot run away from this, he has been reported and it will not go away. texas bon does not play around with nurses that have drug/alcohol issues.

is like ready to get the he** outta dodge. i dont quite know what to think about it...kinda makes me think i got suckered into thinking he was serious about getting help. i am hoping he is just in shock though.

he might be in shock. who knows. but at this point, do not feel bad if he chooses not to seek treatment, or if he refuses it. you have done all that you can do to help him, you've done more than anyone else has for him as far as getting treatment. the best thing for a person like this is to be reported to the board so that they will either a) be forced into treatment, to keep their license and to save their life. or b) if the denial is bad enough, and the evidence is rock solid and they still refuse treatment, their livelyhood will be taken away, let's just hope he realizes he needs to remain in treatment and follow the board's orders or he will lose his license.

you are very informative....the way you guys explain things it kinda makes sense. like now i understand why they told him if he signed their forms then his ability to give scheduled drugs would be taken away. so...i know he said they'd randomly test for alcohol...but what about other drugs. in theed we do a blood etoh level.....so are they now going to assume he will change to a different drug and do random drug screens in addition to blood alcohol levels?

yes, if he is in the program, they will randomly test for everything. there is also a urine alcohol test out now that will show alcohol up to 80 something hours after consuming it, they will test that, and he will not which drugs they are testing for that day. the drug test form just has numbers and the computer he will be calling in to will tell him which number to chose that day.

ok...so what if he moves and doesnt sign the stuff. i mean can you do that? his mom is acting like they are mistreating her little boy and i keep telling her to just let him work this out on his own. wow...up to 90 days inpatient?

honestly? if you talk to his mother, talk to her now, and tell her that her little boy will lose his nursing license, no doubt about it, if he refuses treatment and he refuses to follow tpapn orders. there doesn't even have to be evidence of drug/alcohol abuse,, if the board gets word on even just good faith, they will investigate and most likely take action. i'm telling you, they do not play around. you tell her this is not a game. this is some serious sh**. unless he wants to be a walmart greeter, or have it "his way" and work at burger king, he better get his act together now.

that sucks. but...if that is what it takes then thats what it takes. so...what happens during the 90 days? is his liscense in limbo, suspended, revoked? and what about at the end of the 30-90 days inpatient...then what? does he automatically start back working..or is there some follow up stuff he has to do?

tpapn is online at http://www.tpapn.org if you click on the handbook, it goes extensively into the rules and what will happen once he enters into the program. if he follows the rules of tpapn, his license will never show that he was in treatment and there will never be a mark on it. however, if he doesn't complete tpapn, the license will show whatever disciplinary action that the board will have to take. tpapn is typically 2 years in length. the amount of time he spends inpatient, outpatient and follow up will depend on his doctor/addictionologist/counselor/psychiatrist that is in charge of his treatment. jack says 90 days, but in reality, we all know it is almost never 90 days inpatient. heck, i never was inpatient, all of my treatment was done outpatient and i am doing fine. but, jack is right, it should be 90 days inpatient. it is very hard to recover from any substance abuse. alcohol is right there in every store and every gas station staring at him in the face, so i think it would be even harder to quit alcohol than it was for me to quit prescription drugs. atleast vicodin/soma wasn't staring at me from the cooler at the local valero.

tpapn requires that the nurse stop working while going through treatment. once their doctor/counselor agrees they are okay to go back to work as a nurse, and they have also tested negative on a random drug test(usually atleast a month out of work) the nurse is cleared to go back to work at an approved facility. there are restrictions once returning to work, such as...

-the facility has to be approved.

-the manager and two other people working with the nurse must know the nurse is in tpapn

-no narcotics for 6 months (or more depending on circumstances, but most of the time 6 months)

-no night shifts (nurse can be approved for nights but this is not the norm)

-the nurse must have a supervisor on site at all times, nurse can not be in an autonomous role. on a rare occassion nurses are allowed to work in home health, but they must be approved and must meet face to face with their manager before seeing patients. there are also other rules that go along with home health. but the nurse must be in very good recovery before home health job is approved.

-no overtime

-no floating

-nurse must have random drug forms on hand each day they go to work. it will be a violation if they go to work and do not have these forms. they can be randomly tested at any time. ua cups from the lab are even sent to the employer and must be available.

-90 meetings (aa/na) in 90 days, signed and documented, and after that nurse must attend 4 meetings a week, documented along with seeing a doctor/counselor as much as every weekday in the beginning and atlleast once a month in the end.

the list of drugs that the nurse cannot take is very long. no narcotics, no benzodiazepines, no opiates, pretty much nothing that will make him feel good. can't even take benadryl or immodium. they do send a list of substitutes that you can take.

i could go on, but if you're interested, go to the website i listed above. there is a wealth of information.

you know...they should make you , or others likeyou ,...who have such a wealth of insight and information go to every nursing school and inservice nursing students ....and at least every 3 years after that . to reiterate the information...bc ....i honestly have never had anyone explain things like you guys. i always have looked at alcohol and drug users as a personal failure. dont be mad....let me explain! i did. i always thought it was a personal character flaw. i did. until...it happened to my buddy. then...i knew something was missing in my knowledge base

some of us actually do go out and try to educate our peers once we are well into recovery. it is the best way to keep your recovery in check. and who else is going to educate our fellow healthcare workers? we have to do it ourselves. and that is why you see us here on this board, helping you out. i know that i have it in my veins to spread the word and help other nurses that are having drug/alcohol addiction issues. i don't feel i could continue to be a nurse unless i tried everyday to educate and help these nurses.

..bc this guy is not just a good nurse...but a stand up guy. he has given families money for cab fare home when they get discharged and dont have any money. he has left on lunch break and got food for patients kids when he knew they had no money. he is a great guy. so this didnt make sense...because i dont see any character flaws in him. so there went my whole " idea" out the window.

this is typical of an addicted nurse. they are super nurses, very nice, out going,, willing to work and make everyone happy. they want to be at the top of their game. sometimes that is why they resort to drugs/alcohol. because like jack said, something is missing, and when the addicted nurse consumes their drug of choice, it works different in their brain. it makes them be the nurse that they want to be the "super nurse" that they strive to be. i hope this makes sense to you.

is different when you know someone that is going through this. he would not have chosen this. he just wouldnt have..it isnt him. so there went my whole hypothesis on alcohol and chemical dependants out the window because it was based on basically ...ignorance on my part...because no one had truly broke it down like you guys have.
that...makes me sound stupid doesnt it? yep...i bet it does.

no, it does not!

here you are, asking questions. and you were there to help him when he needed it the most. you will never forget this incident and you will look at it differently now. but you're a good nurse to come here and ask all these questions. i know you care because you're here asking. it makes a world of a difference.

ok..final question.....when i talk to him should i completly avoid discussing anything about his program?or ask about it? becasue it is kind alike ignoring the elephant in the room if i dont ask anything.....

no. now, it is all about his recovery. nothing else matters. it really is that important. if he doesn't straighten his act up now, he will be in a world of hurt. maybe not now, but soon. the world is crashing down on him now, and you need to be a good friend, but do not act like nothing is wrong. ..... everything is wrong right now and he needs to face it. the board has been notified, right? there is no getting away from this. he needs to own up to this, or he must know what he is facing.

shugrr22107NA · Jun 26, 2009

it is just a bad situation. what i dont understand is how everything kinda works. i know the bon is mainly concerned about protecting the public.....and this peer assistance is more worried about getting him help. i think everyone kinda lost sight of the fact that he is a good guy....and all...but he has just lost sight of what is important. i dont understand physcial addiction. i guess...from what i am reading i am very lucky. i mean....i like chocolate...but if chocolate potentially could cost me my livelihood i wouldnt be eating it. i'd start eating granola...or popcorn....or just leave snacks alone period. so...i dont understand a physcial need for a liquid or a substance. i cant find anyones blog that describes it either. i think alot of people think it is a choice....and i think that too. you are recovering right now....so every day you make a choice to not use/drink. so...even though it is a choice.....i still see patients in dt's in the er all the er all teh time. i see seizures, tremors, temps spiking to the 105 range,...mi's...arrythmias....etc etc ...so while i know there is some kind of physcial componenet too. i just dont understand it

taken from the boig book of alcoholics anonymous:

"we of alcoholics anonymous believe that the reader will be interested in the medical estimate of the plan of recovery described in this book. convincing testimony must surely come from medical men who have had experience with the sufferings of our members and have witnessed our return to health. a well known doctor, chief physician at a nationally prominent hospital specializing in alcoholic and drug addiction, gave alcoholics anonymous this letter:

to whom it may concern:

i have specialized in the treatment of alcoholism for many years.

about four years ago i attended a patient who, though he had been a competent business man of good earning capacity, was an alcoholic of a type i had come to regard as hopeless.

in the course of his third treatment he acquired certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery. as part of his rehabilitation he commenced to present his conceptions to other alcoholics, impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others. this has become the basis of a rapidly growing fellowship of these men and their families. this man and over one hundred others appear to have recovered.

i personally know thirty of these cases who were of the type with whom other methods had failed completely.

these facts appear to be of extreme medical importance; because of the extraordinary possibilities of rapid growth inherent in this group they mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism. these men may well have a remedy for thousands of such situations.

you may rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves.

very truly yours, (signed)william d. silkworth m.d.

the physician who, at our request, gave us this letter, has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views in another statement which follows. in this statement he confirms what anyone who has suffered alcoholic torture must believe - that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. it does not satisfy us to be told that we cannot control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. these things were true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. but we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. in our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete.

the doctor's theory that we have a kind of allergy to alcohol interests us. as laymen, our opinion as to its soundness may, of course, mean little. but as ex-alcoholics, we can say that his explanation makes good sense. it explains many things for which we cannot otherwise account.

though we work out our solution on the spiritual plane, we favor hospitalization for the alcoholic who is very jittery or befogged. more often than not, it is imperative that a man's brain be cleared before he is approached, as he has then a better chance of understanding and accepting what we have to offer.

the doctor writes:

the subject presented in this book seems to me to be of paramount importance to those afflicted with alcoholic addiction.

i say this after many years' experience as medical director of one of the oldest hospitals in the country treating alcoholic and drug addiction.

there was, therefore, a sense of real satisfaction when i was asked to contribute a few words on a subject which is covered in such masterly detail in these pages.

we doctors have realized for a long time that some form of moral psychology was of urgent importance to alcoholics, but its application presented difficulties beyond our conception. what with our ultra-modern standards, our scientific approach to everything, we are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers of good that lie outside our synthetic knowledge.

about four years ago one of the leading contributors to this book came under our care in this hospital and while here he acquired some ideas which he put into practical application at once.

later, he requested the privilege of being allowed to tell his story to other patients here and perhaps with some misgiving, we consented. the cases we have followed through have been most interesting; in fact, many of them are amazing. the unselfishness of these men as we have come to know them, the entire absence of profit motive, and their community spirit, is indeed inspiring to one who has labored long and wearily in this alcoholic field. they believe in themselves, and still more in the power which pulls chronic alcoholics back from the gates of death.

of course an alcoholic ought to be freed from his physical craving for liquor, and this often requires a definite hospital procedure, before psychological measures can be of maximum benefit.

we believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker. these allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence, their reliance upon things human, their problems pile up on them and become astonishingly difficult to solve.

frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices. the message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight. in nearly all cases, their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves, if they are to re-create their lives.

if any feel that as psychiatrists directing a hospital for alcoholics we appear somewhat sentimental, let them stand with us a while on the firing line, see the tragedies, the despairing wives, the little children; let the solving of these problems become a part of their daily work, and even of their sleeping moments, and the most cynical will not wonder that we have accepted and encouraged this movement. we feel, after many years of experience, that we have found nothing which has contributed more to the rehabilitation of these men than the community movement now growing up among them.

men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. the sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. to them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. they are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks - drinks which they see others taking with impunity. after they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. this is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

on the other hand - and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand - once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules.

men have cried out to me in sincere and despairing appeal: "doctor, i cannot go on like this! i have everything to live for! i must stop, but i cannot! you must help me!"

faced with this problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must sometimes feel his own inadequacy. although he gives all that is in him, it often is not enough. one feels that something more than human power is needed to produce the essential psychic change. though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort is perhaps considerable, we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon the problem as a whole. many types do not respond to the ordinary psychological approach.

i do not hold with those who believe that alcoholism is entirely a mental condition. i have had many men who had, for example, worked a period of months on some problem or business deal which was to be settled on a certain date, favorably to them. they took a drink a day or so prior to the date, and then the phenomenon of craving at once became paramount to all other interests so that the important appointment was not met. these men were not drinking to escape; they were drinking to overcome a craving beyond their mental control.

there are many situations which arise out of the phenomenon of craving which cause men to make the supreme sacrifice rather than continue to fight.

the classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. there are, of course, the constitutional psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. we are all familiar with this type. they are always "going on the wagon for keeps." they are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision.

then there are those who are never properly adjusted to life, who are the so-called neurotics. the prognosis of this type is unfavorable.

there is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. he plans various ways of drinking. he changes his brand or his environment. there is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. there is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.

then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. they are often able, intelligent, friendly people.

all these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. this phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, sets them apart as a distinct entity. it has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. the only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence.

this immediately precipitates us into a seething caldron of debate. much has been written pro and con, but among physicians, the general opinion seems to be that most chronic alcoholics are doomed.

what is the solution? perhaps i can best answer this by relating an experience of two years ago.

about one year prior to this experience a man was brought in to be treated for chronic alcoholism. he had but partially recovered from a gastric hemorrage and seemed to be a case of pathological mental deterioration. he had lost everything worth while in life and was only living, one might say, to drink. he frankly admitted and believed that for him there was no hope. following the elimination of alcohol, there was found to be no permanent brain injury. he accepted the plan outlined in this book. one year later he called to see me, and i experienced a very strange sensation. i knew the man by name, and partly recognized his features, but there all resemblance ended. from a trembling, despairing, nervous wreck, had emerged a man brimming over with self-reliance and contentment. i talked with him for some time, but was not able to bring myself to feel that i had known him before. to me he was a stranger, and so he left me. more than three years have now passed with no return to alcohol.

when i need a mental uplift, i often think of another case brought in by a physician prominent in new york city. the patient had made his own diagnosis, and deciding his situation hopeless, had hidden in a deserted barn determined to die. he was rescued by a searching party, and, in desperate condition, brought to me. following his physical rehabilitation, he had a talk with me in which he frankly stated he thought the treatment a waste of effort, unless i could assure him, which no one ever had, that in the future he would have the "will power" to resist the impulse to drink.

his alcoholic problem was so complex, and his depression so great, that we felt his only hope would be through what we then called "moral psychology", and we doubted if even that would have any effect.

however, he did become "sold" on the ideas contained in this book. he has not had a drink for more than three years. i see him now and then and he is as fine a specimen of manhood as one could wish to meet.

i earnestly advise every alcoholic to read this book through,and though perhaps he came to scoff, he may remain to pray.

sorry about the really long post, but as you stated, you do not, and likely cannot fully understand our disease, but i appreciate your willingness to ask for more information. here it is. i am more than happy to share my own experience with anyone, alcoholic or not, that they may better understand this malady.

i've been given a new life through abstinence from alcohol and the only way i get to stay sober today is by above all remembering that i am alcoholic and i can understand that person who denies the problem and continues to drink while it kills them....a unique but true understanding between one who has overcome the problem using the program of aa and one who suffers from it, is exactly how it works.

thanks for letting me share.

sober since 2-21-2007 one day at a time

jackstem · Jun 26, 2009

Well, if he wants to be in denial, and he can't at this point stay in treatment, then there goes his nursing license. After that, he might as well give his kids over to CPS and start digging his own grave.
I know this sounds negative, but dang.. sometimes I am just tired. I think I had a long day . I need to go to bed now.

I can tell you're tired based on the your comment about denial. :eek:

He doesn't WANT to be in denial. It's part of the disease process and the number one sign/symptom of the disease.

Did you sleep well?

Jack

Magsulfate, BSN, RN · Jun 26, 2009

I can tell you're tired based on the your comment about denial.
He doesn't WANT to be in denial. It's part of the disease process and the number one sign/symptom of the disease.
Did you sleep well?
Jack

You are sooo right. I knew this. I was just whooped up on yesterday at work. They soaked me down and wrung me out like an old rag yesterday. But I love it! lol

I am always fresh and full of ideas at 4:30am in the morning :) :)