Did I do the right thing?

Nurses Recovery

Published

Did I do the right thing? I have a close friend.....and that person has been denying they have a alcohol addiction problem. They made me feel guilty for even asking if they had a problem.Things got worse....they refused to get help.They drank...daily. At times to the point of passing out. They have kids involved, young kids. They wouldnt get help ....got angry when asked to get help. It was just a bad situation. He saw no problem with drinking up until he clocked in to work. he denied it until he was in a position and got caught red handed. It was affecting their health, their kids emotional health and they felt they were in "complete" control of their addiction. They are divorced and their ex lives several states away and is not involved in their kids lives. He said he tried to stop drinking on his own and it didnt work out well.....he had an adverse outcome something like a seizure. So...with him still refusing to get help,...or even admit he had a "REAL" problem....I called his state peer assistance program to try and get someone to intervene. I felt like my hands were tied.....like if I didnt do something he would die and his young kids would have no one. I still....feel horrible. It was .....difficult to make that call. So...did I do the right thing? Could I have done something different...was there another way?

i can tell you're tired based on the your comment about denial. :eek:

he doesn't want to be in denial. it's part of the disease process and the number one sign/symptom of the disease.

did you sleep well? ;)

jack

you guys are great. and thank you all for sharing your time and knowledge with me. most of his other friends have now slinked away like a snake in the grass. i appreciate mag's comment about not ignoring his treatment. all of his family have said not to bring it up .....but ....i want to see him get better....and i think that ignoring everything is kinda how he ended up at work loaded. so....how receptive were you guys to friends that asked how you were doing in your program? bc ...he...isnt a happy camper. he said the program is not for him. trying to tell his contact at the tx bon that this is not the right program for him. i mean do..they do that? if you dont like that one program....do they switch you to another? or do they just look at that as another way to manipulate the situation and avoid acknowledging your problem?

also...what will happen if he does leave and go back to oklahoma/arizona /utah/nevada/new mexico/south/north dakota ( evasive as to not identiy him) ..or a state he used to live in and try to work? if i am correct..texas is his original state of liscnsure. .

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Impaired Nurse Advocate, CRNA, ER,.
They soaked me down and wrung me out like an old rag yesterday. But I love it! lol

As they say at my caduceus meeting....QUALITY PROBLEMS!

4:30AM...I was just bout falling back to sleep. We had some hefty storms blow through between 2 - 4 AM.

I see a nap in my future (another quality problem).

Also, according to USA Today, Michael Jackson suddenly stopped breathing after an injection of Demerol (His family attorney said he had warned the family numerous times that this would happen if they didn't get him help. He also told them he would speak out loudly if Mr. Jackson died from complications of drug misuse). According to FOX radio news, his "private physician" was with him at the time. The LA County police want to "have a talk" with the doc. Could some licensing board issues be in theis MDs future? I guarantee you he has an attorney!

This disease is deadly when we wait until they "hit bottom". DEATH is the most frequent bottom. We can't fix that "bottom" yet.

Jack

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Impaired Nurse Advocate, CRNA, ER,.
most of his other friends have now slinked away like a snake in the grass.

"friends"? this disease let's you know pretty fast who your real friends are.

all of his family have said not to bring it up

of course they did. this is a family disease! the "co-dependents" are just as ill as he is. if they don't seek help through the family program and continue on with al-anon, they will continue to try to "control" his use, and he risk of relapse increases significantly when the home (and other) environments don't change. you might be the only friend he has right now, and i applaud you for being there and trying to learn as much as possible.

read the book "staying sober" by terence gorski. it is one of the best books i've ever read on this disease. it's around $15.00

how receptive were you guys to friends that asked how you were doing in your program?

the first time after treatment (yes...it generally takes more than one time through to "get it". just like cancer may require more than one treatment regimen, or diabetics need more than one "tune-up" to get and keep their dm under control).....i wasn't happy. when someone asked i immediately became defensive....why do you want to know!? it's none of your #%*!!&%%$ business! when i finally did get it, i wanted everyone to understand what i was going through. the bottom line is, if you really understand what an addict goes through, it's because you're an addict.

he...isnt a happy camper. he said the program is not for him. trying to tell his contact at the tx bon that this is not the right program for him. i mean do..they do that? if you dont like that one program....do they switch you to another?

of course he doesn't like this program. of course it's not the "right one" for him! the only "right one" is where he gets to drink and/or use when he wants. remember...his brain isn't healthy right now. he's not capable of realizing and accepting he's an alcoholic. it's going to take him awhile to get it. i'm talking months, if not years. hopefully he'll be one of the lucky ones who has an epiphany and suddenly accepts the disease and never drinks again. not likely, but we can always hope.

what will happen if he does leave and go back to oklahoma/arizona /utah/nevada/new mexico/south/north dakota ( evasive as to not identiy him) ..or a state he used to live in and try to work? if i am correct..texas is his original state of liscnsure.

more and more state boards check with other states of practice before issuing a license. while he might get away with it for a period of time, it'll catch up to him. if (and when) it does, he is facing permanent loss of his license and possibly criminal charges, such as practicing without a license.

he is behaving like a majority of us do when we first have to face this disease. some people never get it and die. remember, the prevailing "theory" by those outside of the recovering community truly believe the only way an addict will recover is when they "hit bottom." intervention is the technique used to create an "artificial", higher bottom. the treatment of any chronic disease is much more effective and long lasting when we intervene early and treat the disease aggressively.

my brother-in-law is a good example. he was suffering with diarrhea and other flu-like symptoms for 2 weeks. he finally took our advice to see his doctor. the doc admitted him at 4:00pm on a monday. dave was dead by 6:00am on thursday. why? he had rocky mountain spotted fever. if he had seen his doctor a week earlier, a prescription of tetracycline would have cured him. by waiting, he became septic and nothing could save him at that point. dumb....stupid....irresponsible. he left a wife and 3 sons under the age of 13. he finally hit bottom....and died because he waited.

keep reading and answering questions. consider attending some open 12 step meetings. an open meeting means anyone can attend. closed meetings are for recovering folks and people who want to recover. call the aa and na central offices in your area (it's pretty easy, their number is inthe front of the phone book under "aa". i think god did that on purpose because he knows addicts don't have a very long attention span, especially when using). ask the folks at aa for information, advice, and where open meetings are held. i know in the cincinnati area there are over 300 meetings a week.

feel free to pm me or other members if you have other questions.

jack

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.
you guys are great. and thank you all for sharing your time and knowledge with me. most of his other friends have now slinked away like a snake in the grass. i appreciate mag's comment about not ignoring his treatment. all of his family have said not to bring it up .....but ....i want to see him get better....and i think that ignoring everything is kinda how he ended up at work loaded. so....how receptive were you guys to friends that asked how you were doing in your program? bc ...he...isnt a happy camper. he said the program is not for him. trying to tell his contact at the tx bon that this is not the right program for him. i mean do..they do that? if you dont like that one program....do they switch you to another? or do they just look at that as another way to manipulate the situation and avoid acknowledging your problem?

also...what will happen if he does leave and go back to oklahoma/arizona /utah/nevada/new mexico/south/north dakota ( evasive as to not identiy him) ..or a state he used to live in and try to work? if i am correct..texas is his original state of liscnsure. .

he can try to run away all he wants, but he will not be able to hide from the texas bon. just go here http://www.bon.state.tx.us/disciplinaryaction/recentaction.html and look at just the most recent records of disciplinary action that the texas bon has taken. it's right there in black and white. public record. they do not go easy on people that have had a chance with tpapn and threw it away. i have read the court orders for many of these and the end result in most all of them is revocation of licensure. there are several court orders from and to other states of disciplinary action taken against nurses. no, he will not be able to work as a nurse in another state once texas realizes he is non compliant and has moved from the state.

if a nurse complies and signs on with tpapn, it is an alternative to disciplinary action. there is no action taken against the license. however, the nurse must remain in texas until completion of tpapn or they will certainly face a board disciplinary hearing. like i said in an earlier post, texas bon does not play around with addiction/substance abuse nurses. i can gaurantee that if he has had an incident at work and has been turned into the board, that they will not let him practice in another state. it may take a few months, but they will catch up to him and he will not be able to hide anymore.

i can not reiterate enough, and i hope you tell him this, heck, let him read our posts. he cannot pretend this is not happening. it will not go away.

anyway, i just want to say that you have done the right thing and now all you can do is be there for him. maybe having him read a few of these posts will not be such a bad idea. i know that you cannot do anything about his denial. just like jack said, that is the number one symptom. he has to realize it before treatment will be effective.

good luck :)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.
As they say at my caduceus meeting....QUALITY PROBLEMS!

4:30AM...I was just bout falling back to sleep. We had some hefty storms blow through between 2 - 4 AM.

I see a nap in my future (another quality problem).

Also, according to USA Today, Michael Jackson suddenly stopped breathing after an injection of Demerol (His family attorney said he had warned the family numerous times that this would happen if they didn't get him help. He also told them he would speak out loudly if Mr. Jackson died from complications of drug misuse). According to FOX radio news, his "private physician" was with him at the time. The LA County police want to "have a talk" with the doc. Could some licensing board issues be in theis MDs future? I guarantee you he has an attorney!

This disease is deadly when we wait until they "hit bottom". DEATH is the most frequent bottom. We can't fix that "bottom" yet.

Jack

I seen/heard about this too! It will be interesting to see this play out.

And you are so right, death is too often the bottom for some people.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
"friends"? this disease let's you know pretty fast who your real friends are.

i think that most people he knows just dont know what to think. some couldnt believe it...others just immediately kinda labeled him as worthless as blew him off. it's kinda like being labeled as a criminal. once you have that stigma attached to you it is probably hard to shake.....which probably makes it even worse.

the first time after treatment (yes...it generally takes more than one time through to "get it". just like cancer may require more than one treatment regimen, or diabetics need more than one "tune-up" to get and keep their dm under control).....i wasn't happy. when someone asked i immediately became defensive....why do you want to know!? it's none of your #%*!!&%%$ business! when i finally did get it, i wanted everyone to understand what i was going through. the bottom line is, if you really understand what an addict goes through, it's because you're an addict.

i have always looked at alcoholics and drug addicts as a personal failure. i thought it was a choice...and still a part of me still thinks that. bc ....ok i understand that some people are prone toalcohol and drug dependancy. it makes sense to a degree...that it acts like a missing link to some. but......but ...but still it is confusing. bc you guys make a choice each and every single morning noon and night to not drink...to not do drugs. so......please be patient....i am trying to wrap my head around this. ok....you have the missing link.....then you get the etoh/drug/aka missing peice that makes you feel good.......so you continue to want that surrogate missing link/aka etoh/drug? but...then you make a choice to quit, so ...even though you liked having this missing link couldnt you have just made the choice in the begining to not drink or do drugs? bc at some point ....it is a choice to stop isnt it? it is a personal choice to stop. and ...i think the rock bottom thing comes from what most people , like me ,...have always thought that ....until they are loosing enough to make it worth their while to choose to quit....they just wont quit. it's like you almost have to loose everything before you realize how bad it is? but through these interventions you create the " false higher bottom" so maybe they will get it before its too late. am i anywhere near correct? see....i want to understand. i do. but it is kinda confusing. part of it...i understand....some i dont. bc i like alot of things.....like chocalate....i like my motorcycle.....i like whitewater rafting.....but if any one of them could jeporadize my livelihood i would choose to not do them. and where i get confused is you guys make a decision each and every day....to not drink...not do drugs. it is hard for me to imagine wanting something so bad id give up everything for it. i am trying to wrap my mind around that....but it isnt clicking. what was it that made you choose to stop...bc the way he is acting is like this is being forced uponhim and he is not a happy camper. can it work if it is being done without the person being real receptive at first.....or is he wasting everyones time until he finally wants to work through their program?were you "ready" and participate for your intervention/rehab? what ...if you dont mind me asking is the thing that made you choose to stop?

and your brotherinlaw story is a great example. it is difficult to wrap my mind around it....and i hope i never understand it if i have to be an addict to do so. i think the thing that makes it so confusing is that in the end it is your choice to quit. maybe not an easy one...but still a choice. i can understand that the genetic predisposition makes sense. that the brain is lacking in something and doesnt even realize it till it gets it...then it wants it again and again. but during thattime......didnt you notice that you were slowly loosing control over your life? or was it so overwhelming that you lost your peripheral vision and only had tunnel/central vision focusing on that etoh/drug? i mean...this is a great nurse.....and now...man...his feild of preference is sicu/micu. so..is this something he could ever return to? even in the ed we have so many narcs available...and we have a huge amount of trust in each other. prior to this i wouldnt have ever had a second thought about a coworker having a alcohol drug issue. so...what kind of places can he realistically work at? and lets be hopeful...and say he gets with the program and say he complies with all tpap requirements...where can he realistically work after this? could it ever be possible for him to return to sicu?or is that just a bad bad idea?

feel free to pm me or other members if you have other questions.

jack

and thank you....this not only is helping me...but hopefully others that will read this after me that have friends and family going through this. and again.....i appreciate you guys being so honest and informative. this is a good guy...he really is. i have known him for 8 years and it wasnt until the last 1- 1 1/2 years that something wasnt exactly right...but still ....this blew me away.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
i seen/heard about this too! it will be interesting to see this play out.

and you are so right, death is too often the bottom for some people.

god have mercy on his soul is all i have to say. iv demerol....injections in the home?

i remember when anna nicole smith died they were crucifying her doc for writing the scrip.....can you imagine if this doc injected him? can you say murder? i bet the da can

Up Vote Up Vote ×
he can try to run away all he wants, but he will not be able to hide from the texas bon. just go here http://www.bon.state.tx.us/disciplinaryaction/recentaction.html and look at just the most recent records of disciplinary action that the texas bon has taken. it's right there in black and white. public record. they do not go easy on people that have had a chance with tpapn and threw it away. i have read the court orders for many of these and the end result in most all of them is revocation of licensure. there are several court orders from and to other states of disciplinary action taken against nurses. no, he will not be able to work as a nurse in another state once texas realizes he is non compliant and has moved from the state.

if a nurse complies and signs on with tpapn, it is an alternative to disciplinary action. there is no action taken against the license. however, the nurse must remain in texas until completion of tpapn or they will certainly face a board disciplinary hearing. like i said in an earlier post, texas bon does not play around with addiction/substance abuse nurses. i can gaurantee that if he has had an incident at work and has been turned into the board, that they will not let him practice in another state. it may take a few months, but they will catch up to him and he will not be able to hide anymore.

i can not reiterate enough, and i hope you tell him this, heck, let him read our posts. he cannot pretend this is not happening. it will not go away.

anyway, i just want to say that you have done the right thing and now all you can do is be there for him. maybe having him read a few of these posts will not be such a bad idea. i know that you cannot do anything about his denial. just like jack said, that is the number one symptom. he has to realize it before treatment will be effective.

good luck :)

i am going to talk to him again on sunday. i will give him this link. i think you are right...it might help. i think it might be different coming from you guys....so...thank you.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Impaired Nurse Advocate, CRNA, ER,.
I want to understand. I do. But it is kinda confusing. part of it...I understand....some I dont. BC I like alot of things.....like chocalate....I like my motorcycle.....I like whitewater rafting.....but if any one of them could jeporadize my livelihood I would choose to not do them.

That's because you're not an addict.

And where I get confused is you guys make a decision each and every day....to not drink...not do drugs. It is hard for me to imagine wanting something so bad Id give up everything for it. I am trying to wrap my mind around that....but it isnt clicking.

That's because you're not an addict.

What was it that made you choose to stop...bc the way he is acting is like this is being forced upon him and he is not a happy camper.

It IS being forced, and he's NOT a happy camper. Remember...brain chemistry and structure changes. Change your brain chemistry and you change the way you think. You change your emotional response. You change your ability to make rational decisions.

What made me stop? Losing everything that mattered, including almost losing my life. Having people in my life with the guts to step in and tell me THIS ENDS NOW! If you choose to continue, you're going to prison. Having people who stopped bailing me out of the jams I was getting into. And most importantly, having time away from all mood altering substances long enough to allow my brain to begin to heal so I could actually learn about the disease and learn new ways of dealing with temptation, anger, fear, pain, etc.. I learned the things that triggered a desire to use and did my best to avoid them. I had other recovering people I could call when I was tempted, who would drop whatever they were doing to come to my aid. I had people in my life who loved me enough to look beyond the crazy things I did when I was using and my disease was active. People who knew and know that that's not who I am.

Can it work if it is being done without the person being real receptive at first.....or is he wasting everyones time until he finally wants to work through their program?

Yes, research shows the addict doesn't have to want treatment for it to work. The thing that's more important than desire to get better is the amount of time spent in appropriate, evidence based treatment. The "magic number" seems to be 90 days. Treatment programs less than 90 days have a significantly lower rate of success (defined as continuous sobriety of one year) than those that last 90 days or longer. We're talking residential treatment.

Were you "ready" and participate for your intervention/rehab? What ...if you dont mind me asking is THE THING that made you choose to stop?

Of course not! But I think most recovering addicts will tell you there is an enormous sense of relief when they finally "get caught". Isn't it interesting that other diseases are diagnosed, while the addict "get's caught"? If you look at the langauage associated with addiction, it's generally negative and associated with stigma. You freely admit you have a tough time accepting this is a disease. Of course you do. Have you ever really learned ANYTHING about the diease of addiction? I'm not talking about the complications associated with addiction (cirrhosis, infections, sudden death, etc.)? Of course not. If you had, you wouldn't be asking all of these excellent questions. Most people think they "know" about addiction. No they don't. And that is the fault of the educational programs around the country. It's one of the major areas of focus for those of us involved in the advocacy movement.

If there is one thing that is seriously lacking in nursing school is the lack of emphasis on science, especially physiology and pharmacology. We care for physiological beings with pharmacological substances, yet we (nurses) have very little understanding of the pathophysiology of the disease process or the pharmacology of the drugs we're administering to treat these diseases. Can you explain how opioids cause analgesia? I mean other than "they bind to receptors in the brain". Which receptors cause which effects? Which receptor causes euphoria. Why doesn't benadryl help the person who has itching associated with opioid administration? Why does administering nalbuphine reverse itching and respiratory depression from opioids but maintain analgesia? It's this elevated level of knowledge that supposedly seperates us from the concerned volunteer. So, the reason you and almost every other nurse struggles with understanding addiction is based in a lack of understanding of physiology and pharmacology. And its not just nurses. Doctors, pharmacists and many, many other health care "professionals" don't understand this stuff either. I have teamed with a nurse attorney to develop a series of workshops regarding addiction and the legal ramifications associated with the disease. We have canceled them. Why? Because no one was signing up to attend. Nurses told us they don't see addicts in their practice so they don't need the class right now (Yeah....right). I'll never become addicted so why waste my time or money? Ummmm...OK. I lready know everything I need to know about addiction. I seriously doubt that.

One of the things that has been a benefit of the research looking into the science of addiction is the overall function of the brain, which areas are responsible for things like judgment, memory, learning, motivation, etc. We like to think that we consciously decide what we're going to learn and what is going to motivate us. In reality, much of what we learn is below our level of consciousness. Many of the "rules" we live our lives by are learned before we even make it to 1st grade.

The brain is wired at it's most basic level to focus on 2 things:

  1. Survival of the organism (you)
  2. Survival of the species (procreation)

Anything the brain perceives as accomplishing one or both of these "directives" is rewarded with a jolt of dopamine in the most primitive areas of the brain. So, when you have sex...DOPAMINE! When you eat...DOPAMINE! When you do a great job at work...DOPAMINE! When you nurture and care for your children...DOPAMINE!!

Dopamine + context (what's going on at the time of the activity being rewarded) = I'll do that again.It's the brain's way of ensuring survival. Now...when the activity has become ingrained...essentially a reflex...the brain says "OK...dopamine is no longer needed to assure this activity will continue." So, the brain has a self-limiting ability when it comes to the need for dopamine rewards.

In the potential addicts brain...the person with the genetic susceptibility to addiction...this dopamine reward system isn't the same as the person without the genetic possibility of becoming an addict. In other words, when a non-susceptible person takes a mood altering substance, their brain may find the sensation "interesting" or "pleasurable", but not excessively so. What is more likely to happen is their brain will find the sensation less than wonderful, even unpleasant.

In the potential addict, ingesting a mood altering substance causes a significantly increased level of dopamine. Their brain says, "Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Baby! THIS is EXCELLENT!!!! I have GOT to do THIS again!" And unlike a natural activity which releases a modest amount of dopamine causing pleasure, the addict's brain dumps tons of dopamine every time. It assures the continued use of the substance. After enough exposure to this substance, their gene for addiction is switched on. They have crossed the line from someone who abuses a substance to someone who REQUIRES the substance! This is the difference between the abuser and the addict. Biochemistry!

The abuser may experience many of the negative consequences the addict experiences. The abuser eventually says, "This sucks! I'm getting in trouble. My boss is threatening to fire me. My wife says she's going to leave. The kids hate me. I have got to stop drinking/using before everything is gone or I end up hurting myself or someone else."

The addict? Their brain needs more drug. But I'm losing everything! The brain needs more drug! My wife left me! The brain needs more drug!! I lost my job! The brain needs more drug!!! You almost killed someone in an accident last night!!

THE BRAIN NEEDS MORE DRUG!!!!!!!!!!

Liking chocolate, motorcycles, white water rafting isn't even close to addiction.

While the brain keeps needing more drug, a variety of areas are beginning to deteriorate. The pre-frontal cortex, the area where judgment and impulse control takes place, begins to function less an less. This means I'm becoming less and less capable of making rational decisions about my drug use, and I certainly can't control my impulse to use. If I have the drug available, then I'm going to use it until it's gone. Once it's gone, I'm going to focus on getting more...nothing else really matters.

When I get the drug, I'm going to use it until it's gone. When it's gone...I'm going to get more....and so on, and so on, and so on.

Another dual effect of addiction is even more frightening. The drugs releasing this exagerrated amount of dopamine means the addict is strongly motivated to continue using the drug. Meanwhile, the "natural" motivators...sex, food, caring for children, doing a great job, playing your favorite game or sport LOSE their ability to motivate a person.

So how does an addict stop? Through an intervention.

When someone hears "intervention", most folks think of the room filled with family, friends, or colleagues. That's only one type of intervention. There are numerous others as well.

Getting pulled over for a DUI is an intervention.

Your spouse threatening divorce is an intervention.

Your boss threatening to fire you...or actually firing you is another intervention.

Ending up in the hospital after an accident (auto, falling down the stairs, or an accidental OD etc.), is an intervention.

Getting arrested for domestic violence, assault, robbery....these are all interventions. The problem is, there are too many "enablers" around that soften the blow of these "natural" interventions. People who want to help the addict by protecting them. They call the boss and lie about the addict being ill. They lend them money for the bills. All this does is allow the addict to keep using and the disease to keep progressing.

A well planned intervention covers every excuse and rationalization the addict has for avoiding treatment.

  • I have to pay those bills! (We have them covered while you're in treatment.)
  • I can't miss that meeting at work! (The meeting has been postponed until you're out of treatment.)
  • What about the kids!? (They're staying with Grandma and Grandpa.)
  • If I miss work I'll get fired! (Your boss said to go to treatment. Your job is safe UNLESS you refuse to go to treatment.)
  • No way! I'm not going to treatment! I'm not an addict! I can quit anytime I want! (No you can't. You keep saying that but you never stop for long. If you don't go to treatment here's what will happen. You can't come home. You can't see the kids. No one in the family will let you stay with them. No one will give you money or food. You will be fired. And if you still refuse, then your license will be revoked and we will prosecute you for diversion. We know you're ill. We know treatment will be difficult. We know it will take some time to get you to the point where you can return to work. We are willing to do whatever it takes to help you get well and learn to stay clean and sober. We will do anything to help you get well. We will not continue to help you die from this disease.)

An abuser can see the bad things going on in their life. They recognize why it's a problem. They can decide to get help or quit on their own. The addict cannot. They need help. They need an intervention.

Some addicts can't stop even after multiple interventions and multiple treatment sessions. Some addicts will die from this disease. Just as some patients with cancer will die no matter how aggressive the treatment.

As I said in a previous post, I wanted to make people understand what I experienced as an addict. The despair that led to an aborted suicide attempt. The continued use after an accidental OD. The relapses. The loss of my career as a nurse anesthetist. The loss of 2 marriages (one because of my disease, the other because of hers and her refusal to seek help). But as most addicts eventually realize, a nonaddict will never understand completely what it's like to do things so destructive to yourself and the people you love. As I told my nephew...the day you understand what an addict goes through is the day you will be sitting in a meeting with me because YOU are an addict. You will never fully understand what happens for the addict. Be thankful for that. Everyone in recovery in this community feels the same way...We NEVER want to see someone go through this garbage! I don't even want people I don't really like to go through this. It's why I do what I do.

Keep asking questions. Keep reading and studying. Keep reaching out to those who suffer with this disease. We CAN change the way this disease is treated, but it's going to be difficult. That's no reason to stop trying.

I know I will never stop trying.

Jack

Up Vote Up Vote ×

jack,........wow. i am so sorry that those things happened to you. nursing...is a unforgiving group....pretty darn judgemental. i think.....if you spoke to nursing students...or people who work in high specialty areas.....you could change alot of views about this disease. you could change alot of peoples lives. your story is powerful. it is different when you read about a disease...an illness. there is no comparison between reading a book on it and speaking to someone who lives with the disease every day. that story....is powerful. your disease ....it costs you so much. what is that saying? what doesnt kill you will make you stronger. man....you could be in the running for world heavy weight champion. i cant imagine goingthrough that. what about now....your clean....your sober....you have changed. so can you get your crna liscense back? is that a possibility?i mean....it is no different facing fentanyl everyday...then it is passing the neighborhood liquor store. so...can you? can you work as a crna again?

i think you guys have heard all the stories before...so what he needs is probably some people like you guys. you will probably reconize all the different tactics he will use...whereas i am easy prey. when i began to see signs that something wasnt quite right a few months back. iasked him " do you have a problem? bc....we were all just having dinner and the next thing i know we are chasing his ass down the bypass where he had taken off running from the resturaunt trying to strip off buck naked. not fun...not fun at all. and when i aske dhim...he had this way of making me feel like an ass for even asking. he made me feel bad that i had even asked that. you guys...have probably heard everything before though.

i checked my voicemail at work yesterday and i got a message from him that said "i cant stay in this program. it is crazy. i cant be off work for a month". so...i laughed wheni say your post...bc you have heard this before. do you know if any of the state boards have any programs to help them out with bills while they are in treatment? i mean...potentially he will loose everything finicially.

so...do you call each other out at these meetings? like if you know one of your group members is just saying bs to get them through the meeting. see....from your posts i could easily picture you doing that. ...seeing through everyones bs.....and calling them out on it. i think ....you guys would be way more effective for him now than me.

he got a look at his contract yesterday and he was not happy. aa meetings everyday...peer group meetings weekly....etc etc

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.
jack,........wow. i am so sorry that those things happened to you. nursing...is a unforgiving group....pretty darn judgemental. i think.....if you spoke to nursing students...or people who work in high specialty areas.....you could change alot of views about this disease. you could change alot of peoples lives. your story is powerful. it is different when you read about a disease...an illness. there is no comparison between reading a book on it and speaking to someone who lives with the disease every day. that story....is powerful. your disease ....it costs you so much. what is that saying? what doesnt kill you will make you stronger. man....you could be in the running for world heavy weight champion. i cant imagine goingthrough that. what about now....your clean....your sober....you have changed. so can you get your crna liscense back? is that a possibility?i mean....it is no different facing fentanyl everyday...then it is passing the neighborhood liquor store. so...can you? can you work as a crna again?

yes, we all have a story... and it all boils down to addiction/alcoholism eventually leads to death if not treated. imagine how close we have gotten to death. i know that i have gotten real close, maybe not as close as jack, but we will never know now, and i really don't want to know ! jack will have to answer abou this liscense,, as far as me, i completed tpapn. people do it everyday. it is a great program and gives nurses who need it the opportunity for a second chance at life and a second chance at thier career.

i think you guys have heard all the stories before...so what he needs is probably some people like you guys. you will probably reconize all the different tactics he will use...whereas i am easy prey. when i began to see signs that something wasnt quite right a few months back. iasked him " do you have a problem? bc....we were all just having dinner and the next thing i know we are chasing his ass down the bypass where he had taken off running from the resturaunt trying to strip off buck naked. not fun...not fun at all. and when i aske dhim...he had this way of making me feel like an ass for even asking. he made me feel bad that i had even asked that. you guys...have probably heard everything before though

if he's taking off his clothes and running through the street naked then, umm.. yeah, he's got a problem.

.

i checked my voicemail at work yesterday and i got a message from him that said "i cant stay in this program. it is crazy. i cant be off work for a month". so...i laughed wheni say your post...bc you have heard this before. do you know if any of the state boards have any programs to help them out with bills while they are in treatment? i mean...potentially he will loose everything finicially.

every single nurse that enters tpapn will do this. we all made it. we sacrifice to recover. i would not have recovered if i had a full bank account and was able to spend money on a whim to buy pills and drugs?? i would have killed myself, on accident of course. so, being off of work for a month or so serves more than one purpose.

1. it gives time for the nurse to detox.

2. there is no cash flow to go buy the drug of choice/alcohol.

3. for me this period of unemployment opened my eyes and made me really appreciate my license and it showed me how fast and easily it can be taken away.

had i been able to keep working through this detox period, i would not have detox'd, i would have used my paycheck to keep buying pills.

he can do it, and he will need to realize that he must do it. but, you know what, and i'm going to say this, and i want you to read this carefully. you can't make him do anything. eventually, the alcohol will beat him down and maybe he will realize what he needs to do. there are homeless people on every street corner, and most of them are alcoholics. you see, they still don't have a problem,, right? but they don't have a job, they don't have a home, they don't have a family. they gave it all up for this disease. they were never able to be treated for one reason or another. i know you would hate to see this happen to your friend.

it sounds like they've already been informed at tpapn. i will tell you again.... tpapn and texas bon do not play around when it comes to this. i know,, i have been there. i don't want to go back, ever. it is bad,,, and yes, it sucks..... but .. guess what,, he made his bed, now he has to lay in it. if he doesn't like it, the texas bon will take his nursing license away and he'll have to find an other way to get his alcohol. i know i sound mean today. but this is how you need to tell him. really. mom needs to cut the apron strings and get this boy sober. he needs to realize that no one is going to help him unless he stays sober and works the recovery program he has been given the opportunity to volunteer for. this is a volunteer program,, no one can make him do it. the ball is rolling already,, he can't back down. he has no choice. do it, or lose his license. there is really no other choice. i will say it again... the board has no sympathy for addicted nurses.

so,, here's what you can tell him the next time he tells you it sucks and he wants to quit.... you can tell him... okay, go ahead and quit. but guess what.. this will follow you to another state. and yes you will get your license revoked. there is no state in the union that will allow a known alcoholic nurse work while drunk. no state in the union. tpapn will turn him into the board with no guilty concience and his license will be snatched up so fast he'll be dizzy for days...

so...do you call each other out at these meetings? like if you know one of your group members is just saying bs to get them through the meeting. see....from your posts i could easily picture you doing that. ...seeing through everyones bs.....and calling them out on it. i think ....you guys would be way more effective for him now than me.

he got a look at his contract yesterday and he was not happy. aa meetings everyday...peer group meetings weekly....etc etc

well, if i knew that a friend of mine in aa/na was drunk or high,, heck yes i would be trying to find out what happened and doing what i could to help them stay clean and sober. thats what we're there for,, to give support and to recieve support. it's a 'group' effort.. no pun intended. but it takes more than one person to keep me sober.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Impaired Nurse Advocate, CRNA, ER,.

no, i will not get my license back. i have no desire to get it back. i'm doing exactly what i'm supposed to be doing...this is my purpose. i know, for me, handling my drug of choice on a daily basis would be too dangerous for my safety. as the great philosopher dirt harry said..."a man's (or woman) got to know his limitations." well, i know mine when it comes to this disease.

at 12 step meetings, the dynamics are as variable as the individuals in attendance. generally there isn't lot of confrontation. most times someone will say a person is in denial or full of fecal material. most meetings aren't confrontational. that's a different story in treatment and at caduceus meetings (recovering health care professionals). addicted health care providers have unique challenges during treatment and recovery. we have a tendency to intellectualize everything. we think our knowledge and training provides us with an immunity. we believe we can "think our way out". wrong! also, i can't save anyone and i can't make someone "get" recovery. recovering addicts "share their experience, strength, and hope." we tell others what it was like when we were using and what it's like now that we're in recovery. we share what has worked for us.

the first 90 days are probably the most crucial. this is when the brain makes it's greatest recuperation. this is the time when abstinence is critical.

i think.....if you spoke to nursing students...or people who work in high specialty areas.....you could change alot of views about this disease.

that's the primary focus of my consulting business. and you'd be surprised at the number of nurses, doctors, politicians, and everyday people who could care less about this disease and the people who have it. they rarely change their minds based on my story or anyone else's. it doesn't matter to them until it directly affects them (family or colleagues). you are a great example of this. you never really thought much about any of this until this friend started going through all of the garbage with the board of nursing and at his job. that's not a criticism, just an observation. another observation that could be off base...if you're chasing your friend down the street while he's getting naked...he's most likely on something more than just etoh. that's also pretty common with addiction.

there is too much information to share it all here. if you're really interested to learn more, follow those links in one of my previous posts and read, read, read.

we have a long way to go before there is a significant change in our culture's attitude regarding addiction. if nurses don't "get it", how can we expect the rest of society to get it? i figure this means job security. it also means too many nurses will have their lives ruined, lose their careers, and many will die needlessly. you can help change that by learning as much a possible and speaking out when necessary.

jack

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment