Did I do the right thing?

[Keysnurse2008]

Did I do the right thing? I have a close friend.....and that person has been denying they have a alcohol addiction problem. They made me feel guilty for even asking if they had a problem.Things got worse....they refused to get help.They drank...daily. At times to the point of passing out. They have kids involved, young kids. They wouldnt get help ....got angry when asked to get help. It was just a bad situation. He saw no problem with drinking up until he clocked in to work. he denied it until he was in a position and got caught red handed. It was affecting their health, their kids emotional health and they felt they were in "complete" control of their addiction. They are divorced and their ex lives several states away and is not involved in their kids lives. He said he tried to stop drinking on his own and it didnt work out well.....he had an adverse outcome something like a seizure. So...with him still refusing to get help,...or even admit he had a "REAL" problem....I called his state peer assistance program to try and get someone to intervene. I felt like my hands were tied.....like if I didnt do something he would die and his young kids would have no one. I still....feel horrible. It was .....difficult to make that call. So...did I do the right thing? Could I have done something different...was there another way?

[Keysnurse2008]

yep...that is the list of the victims of the "drug war". the only people dyin' are the addicts.

and it's gonna continue until we change the way we approach the whole thing. the popous politicians, the righteous police and boards of nursing, medicine, pharmacy, etc. have to change what they're doing since it ain't workin' the way they're doing things now.

jack

if you guys could change anything about the way the bon, or the board of medicine attempts to help what way would you change it?

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

if you guys could change anything about the way the bon, or the board of medicine attempts to help what way would you change it?

well, each state is different. i agree with the concept of the peer advocacy groups and the alternative to punishment. i might just change the length of the program in texas. i just don't think that two years is long enough. i know that other states are longer as much as 5 years. this might not be a popular opinion.,, but it is what i think...

[jackstem]

if you guys could change anything about the way the bon, or the board of medicine attempts to help what way would you change it?

i agree with mag...at least 5 years for monitoring. the peer advisors for the aana recommend some sort of monitoring for the remainder of the clinician's career.

the biggest thing i would like to see changed would be to make education regarding the disease mandatory for all board members (as well as all training programs), and a recovering nurse must be a member of any committee charged with reviewing complaints regarding an impaired nurse. ignorance of the disease is the largest problem we have in dealing with it effectively. and intentional ignorance is unethical and unprofessional. have you noticed that hiv/aids ceu's are required? have you noticed that certain legal courses are required (at least they are in ohio). anyone notice there's no mandatory ceu's regarding one of the biggest (if not the biggest) public health issues in this country...substance abuse and addiction? time to face this disease head on instead of playing word and political games. too many people are dying.

jack

[Keysnurse2008]

I am suprised that they dont have people that have successfully completed the program on the panel that reviews complaints. I mean .....that would be the equivilant to having me on the panel that reviews them. And ....I apparently am pretty gullable. I still cant completly grasp everything you guys are describing. I almost fell for his shennanigans again the other day when he told me what was in the contract. I dont consider myself easily manipulated....but I have been. So there is no way to compare the knowledge I would bring to a review panel with what one of you guys would.So....that suprises me ...that they dont have recovering nurses on there. What about leaders for these peer group meetings....and the case managers....?

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

I am suprised that they dont have people that have successfully completed the program on the panel that reviews complaints. I mean .....that would be the equivilant to having me on the panel that reviews them. And ....I apparently am pretty gullable. I still cant completly grasp everything you guys are describing. I almost fell for his shennanigans again the other day when he told me what was in the contract. I dont consider myself easily manipulated....but I have been. So there is no way to compare the knowledge I would bring to a review panel with what one of you guys would.So....that suprises me ...that they dont have recovering nurses on there. What about leaders for these peer group meetings....and the case managers....?

I go to a weekend conference every year. It is required to be an advocate in the state of Texas. Every year there are members of the investigation unit from the board of nursing. So, yes they do have some education in the matter. They may not be experts like Jack,, they may not be recovering addicts like me but they have had education on the subject. I have witnessed this. There are a lot of recovering nurses volunteering and working with tpapn, nurses that have completed the program and have been clean/sober for some time. Also, the case managers have seen everything. Pretty much. They do have the first go at nurses who foul up and need recovery to save them. So, that is the first chance nurses get. In their first chance, they have a whole group of people very educated about recovery in the healthcare field. Once that chance is thrown away, the board is not so nice. That's the easiest way to put it.

Even if there were board members highly educated in the aspect of addiction/alcoholism, I am not sure it would make a big difference. They are there to protect the patients , the public from dangerous nurses.

[Keysnurse2008]

i go to a weekend conference every year. it is required to be an advocate in the state of texas. every year there are members of the investigation unit from the board of nursing. so, yes they do have some education in the matter. they may not be experts like jack,, they may not be recovering addicts like me but they have had education on the subject. i have witnessed this. there are a lot of recovering nurses volunteering and working with tpapn, nurses that have completed the program and have been clean/sober for some time. also, the case managers have seen everything. pretty much. they do have the first go at nurses who foul up and need recovery to save them. so, that is the first chance nurses get. in their first chance, they have a whole group of people very educated about recovery in the healthcare field. once that chance is thrown away, the board is not so nice. that's the easiest way to put it.

even if there were board members highly educated in the aspect of addiction/alcoholism, i am not sure it would make a big difference. they are there to protect the patients , the public from dangerous nurses.

thank you so much for sharing all your insight. i guess it makes sense to have case managers etc that are not kinda fighting their own demons. this...is complicated stuff. i am still kinda sorting all this stuff out in my head exactly how it all works. i guess that helps the bon members alot,...having you guys at this conference to keep them in touch/ ground them. i see patients all the time in the ed trying to get something...they come in with a plan and over time we have learned their behavoirs,...at times we even know what complaints they will have , what they really want and what they need. what they want and need are seldom the same thing. at this conference.....do they ask you guys alot of questions? or do they come thinking they are going to educate you? see...the case manager i spoke with seemed very wise to say the least. they told me that what my friend was doing was manipulating me when i told them he had a way of making me feel bad i had even asked if he had a problem. ok...this is probably the last question i have for you guys. how can you tell if someone has started to reuse? is the initial behavoir re-exhibited? or do you see other things ......i mean tehy way you guys describe this is like a rollercoaster that you have to be on for a while till you see the ride end. so...you cant just say because they are disheveled/ dont care about their appearance that they are using...bc it kinda sounds like hell. it sounds like your body proabably feels like it has been on the spin cycle so you might not have energy........and i dont think id be able to reconize if he was relapsing...bc hell i wasnt 100% sure he had a problem till it slapped me in the face. i see that this is his great hope...he feels like it is the end of the world. it isnt.....but with such deceitful behavoir...dont know how to help ...or maybe id be doing him a better favor to just stay away till after a few months.maybe this is why alot of people walk away.....we just dont know how to help and dont want to make things worse.

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

Well, it sounds like probably, if your friend relapses, he will be drunk. You will be able to tell. You'll see him with a drink in his hand, or you will see him drunk.

Also, just to clarify, I'm not fighting my demons anymore. Anyone in good recovery will probably agree with me that their demons are locked up, and only growl every now and then. I am not fighting off my demons anymore and anyone working as a case manager or advocate will be the same. Otherwise how can one help others if they are still having difficulty with their own recovery?

Also, is this your significant other or are you his supervisor? I am very familiar with the workings of TPAPN and know that it is a VERY confidential program, and they wouldn't be talking to you unless you were one of these, or you were working on his case as a manager or advocate. This information brings to light a whole new issue. Just be very careful, go on with life, but right now it is priority number one for him to recover and stay sober. It doesn't have to be the center of every conversation, but it will be a conversation that you'll have EVERYDAY for a while. And it is something that will be in the back of your mind, and his, all the time.

[jackstem]

I go to a weekend conference every year. It is required to be an advocate in the state of Texas. Every year there are members of the investigation unit from the board of nursing. So, yes they do have some education in the matter. They may not be experts like Jack,, they may not be recovering addicts like me but they have had education on the subject. I have witnessed this. There are a lot of recovering nurses volunteering and working with tpapn, nurses that have completed the program and have been clean/sober for some time. Also, the case managers have seen everything. Pretty much. They do have the first go at nurses who foul up and need recovery to save them. So, that is the first chance nurses get. In their first chance, they have a whole group of people very educated about recovery in the healthcare field. Once that chance is thrown away, the board is not so nice. That's the easiest way to put it.

Even if there were board members highly educated in the aspect of addiction/alcoholism, I am not sure it would make a big difference. They are there to protect the patients , the public from dangerous nurses.

Ahhhhhh yes...they are there to protect the public from dangerous nurses. But a nurse who is dangerous because of a disease should be managed differently than a nurse who is dangerous because they are stupid, lazy or don't give a damn.

Unfortunately, there are few states with the setup that Texas has. Too many BON's have no idea what they're doing when it comes to this disease...whether it's the impaired nurse or an impaired patient. They are judgmental in both instances, they're just able to be punitive with the impaired nurse. Sit in on some of the board meetings and listen to what's said between cases, what's said when they are "off the record". It's appalling, unprofessional, and unethical. One meeting I was sitting in on was amazing. One of the board members was beginning a rant about how impaired nurses should never have the chance to get their license back. They should be "busted and rot in jail". Finally, one of the attorneys working for the board told the guy to shut up and get his posterior into the room off the main room so they could discuss things further. I wish I had a tape recorder with me that day.

Scary stuff.

Jack

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

Oh man. I don't know if I even want to sit in on something like that... I guess I'm lucky to be a Texan.

Oh yeah.. did I tell you?...

Jack, you are so smart.

Ahhhhhh yes...they are there to protect the public from dangerous nurses. But a nurse who is dangerous because of a disease should be managed differently than a nurse who is dangerous because they are stupid, lazy or don't give a damn.

Unfortunately, there are few states with the setup that Texas has. Too many BON's have no idea what they're doing when it comes to this disease...whether it's the impaired nurse or an impaired patient. They are judgmental in both instances, they're just able to be punitive with the impaired nurse. Sit in on some of the board meetings and listen to what's said between cases, what's said when they are "off the record". It's appalling, unprofessional, and unethical. One meeting I was sitting in on was amazing. One of the board members was beginning a rant about how impaired nurses should never have the chance to get their license back. They should be "busted and rot in jail". Finally, one of the attorneys working for the board told the guy to shut up and get his posterior into the room off the main room so they could discuss things further. I wish I had a tape recorder with me that day.

Scary stuff.

Jack

[jackstem]

Oh man. I don't know if I even want to sit in on something like that... I guess I'm lucky to be a Texan.

Oh yeah.. did I tell you?...

Jack, you are so smart.

And you are so full of that brown stuff!

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

And you are so full of that brown stuff!

Yes, I just ate a very large fudge brownie with walnuts, chased down with milk.. now I've got to go get a gastric lap band to counteract all the calories.. oh wait, did i tell you about the Venti double choc chip frapaccino that i'm drinking too???

[NeedchangeofPace]

Also, just to clarify, I'm not fighting my demons anymore. Anyone in good recovery will probably agree with me that their demons are locked up, and only growl every now and then.

Ain't that the truth..but sometimes the tentacles do come out from under the bed.

Great thread Mag and Jack wish I could articulate half as good as the 2 of you, even a quarter would be good.

I do have one question, you nurse types have an affinity for using intials like everyone supposed to understand them, so that being said what the heck is a CEU? Do I need one? or two? Do they go good with coffee? or best before an appetizer? or after the salad?? Are they expensive?? Do they travel well??

Thanks

Mark